What causes this distracting guitar resonance?

Tico

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What causes this distracting M 20 resonance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yEqeEc8lwo

FF to around 4:15 of Tony Pelacastro'a review of Oxnard's Guild M 20.
Notice the C (3rd fret, 5th string) at 4:24 it's much louder.
Later in the video at 4:40 you'll notice the range of this resonance also includes an adjacent note, the B (2nd fret, 5th string).
I makes me want to insert a parametric equalizer to smooth out the response.

Is this peak resonance from the guitar itself?
Could it be the room, or recording equipment?
Some combination of the 3?
Something else?

I suspect it's the guitar.
It's not my room since:
1. The resonance sounds the same in my good headphones.
2. I have not noticed this problem on the any other guitar reviews from Tony.

I'm inquiring because I feel some GAS for an M 20.
If this resonance is inherent in the design, that would cause a leak in my GAS tank.

What think you?
 
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Antney

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I think your nutz...I didn’t hear it. Go find a real one and play it...bet you it’ll play just fine
 

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Depending on what they used to record the guitar, it might be in the equiptment. Youtube audio isn't that great either.
 

Mr. Lumbergh

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yEqeEc8lwo

FF to around 4:15 of Tony Pelacastro'a review of Oxnard's Guild M 20.
Notice the C (3rd fret, 5th string) at 4:24 it's much louder.
Later in the video at 4:40 you'll notice the range of this resonance also includes an adjacent note, the B (2nd fret, 5th string).
I makes me want to insert a parametric equalizer to smooth out the response.

Is this peak resonance from the guitar itself?
Could it be the room, or recording equipment?
Some combination of the 3?
Something else?

I suspect it's the guitar.
It's not my room since:
1. The resonance sounds the same in my good headphones.
2. I have not noticed this problem on the any other guitar reviews from Tony.

I'm inquiring because I feel some GAS for an M 20.
If this resonance is inherent in the design, that would cause a leak in my GAS tank.

What think you?

If I'm hearing what I think you're referring to correctly, it's his picking technique. It sounds like the pick rubbing against the string windings.
 

Nuuska

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Hello

I did put my "devil ears" on - then I could hear all kinds of imperfections - like slight out-of-tune-notes - volume unbalance here and there etc - you name it.

Conclusion - the way he plays it.

Go find one and try a real one like Antney suggested.


On some classical recordings you can hear how the bench of the grand piano player squeaks or a bird is tapping the window of a church etc. Goes to prove it is a human made recording - nothing wrong with it at all.
 

Rayk

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Sounds good to me . I’ve watched this vid many times before , I agree with Nuuska and Antney and the others . YouTubes compression is crazy .
The slightly out tune strings which are mostly new strings not stretched out yet which I’ve heard before on the vids .
Then you have the picking attack he has .
As to the resonance I think it’s like the Om 120 I bought tony does a vid on that with a Martin OO 15 I think anyway I was very surprised and how it rings/ overtones very chimey which I like .
You can find ways to tame it if needed .
 

Westerly Wood

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great sounding small body guitar. nice and full for its size.
 

Tico

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When playing a scale notes should sound like their neighbors.
A few adjacent notes should not stand out like a sore thumb.

I'm surprised nobody can hear this.
Maybe I didn't do a good job explaining what I'm hearing.

Listen to how the bass on that C and B is WAY louder than the bass is on any other notes on strings 6, 5, and 4.

That's the only thing I'm talking about.

... and yes obviously going out and playing the model is superior to a YT video.
 
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GuildFS4612CE

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Maybe you've been gifted with perfect pitch and extreme sensitivity...and the ability to both fret adjacent notes and strike the strings perfectly...most people don't have those gifts.

Nuuska is a pro FOH engineer...I trust his review of the situation.
 

Nuuska

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Maybe you've been gifted with perfect pitch and extreme sensitivity...and the ability to both fret adjacent notes and strike the strings perfectly...most people don't have those gifts.

Nuuska is a pro FOH engineer...I trust his review of the situation.



In my opinion THAT kind of hearing is not a blessing - it is a curse - there are some folks who have "absolute pitch" - and since the pitch has shifted through decades, they are literally suffering when they hear something in A=440 vs A=440,2 - I am REALLY glad that I am not one of those - in any concert or other live situation there are so many things that vary - temperature - humidity etc - that if the band is in internal tune, all is going to be fine. For those with absolute pitch - maybe not.

TICO - yes - on several places the low E-string does not sound as loud as A-string - but I still tend to "blame " his playing - maybe even recording ( of which we know nil )

But go find one real guitar and test it. It may not be your love, but without trying you´ll never know.
 

Tico

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BTW perfect pitch is about pitch.
FWIW, I do not have perfect pitch.
Few do.
Most who think they do don't; some have relative pitch.
I never suggested these notes are sharp or flat.

This is about those notes have much stronger bass than notes around them.
Instruments shouldn't do that, and I strongly suspect it's not his playing.
Every time he plays those notes, alone or in a chord, the bass of those notes jumps out awkwardly.
If all the notes on all the wound strings had similar amplitude of bass it would be fine.
They don't.

Maybe the reason I notice this is my extensive experience in voicing pianos.
The good tech can do many things to the hammer, the action and the strings to make all the notes to sound similar in tone and volume to their neighbors.
Of course as you play all 88 keys the tonal quality changes as you go, but it should be even and gradual.
One or two notes should not stand out.
Musically, this is important with many kinds of classical music, especially Bach.

Another reason I notice unevenness of tone is my recording experience.
I recognize a room's resonant frequency and use a parametric equalizer to attenuate that frequency range.
You can dial in any frequency, then change the width of frequency range (Q), and change the volume for only that range.
Some people use a white noise generator (equal energy at all frequencies) and a spectrum analyzer and third-octave equalizer to flatten out response of a room, though it only works at the one position the mic was in.

So my hearing is not special and I'm not gifted.
But I'm certain I'm not imagining this or smoked something. :wink-new:

I do intend to get out and find some M 20s to play.
I have 3 Guilds, a 1977 D-55 I bought new, a 1973 maple D-44 I inherited, and a 1977 F-212XL bought used.
I'd love to ad an all-hog smaller body Guild to my stable.
One of my students has a 1940s all-hog Martin and I've fallen in love with this kind of guitar tone.
 
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beinhard

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Hi, Tico

I hear exactly what you describe.

My hearing isn't special either, I suppose different people are sensitive to different aspects of sound.

Guitar, room, strings, microphone placement? No idea.

beinhard
 

Rayk

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When playing a scale notes should sound like their neighbors.
A few adjacent notes should not stand out like a sore thumb.

I'm surprised nobody can hear this.
Maybe I didn't do a good job explaining what I'm hearing.

Listen to how the bass on that C and B is WAY louder than the bass is on any other notes on strings 6, 5, and 4.

That's the only thing I'm talking about.

... and yes obviously going out and playing the model is superior to a YT video.

I’m going to listen again as I’m starting to understand what your saying better now , I’m slow . lol

The only thing I can figure being the cause would be the guitar body not handling frequencies right .

It happens a lot on some guitars when playing high up at least that’s where I hear it , you have one note sing move a half step up and it’s dull .

I would say in this case the cause would be the guitars body wood not performing not the tuning of it ,Such as the tops tap tone and then tuning with the bracing afixed .

The some other guitars that have this issue up high I believe are not worked well in regards to the tuning to begin with , concentrating the tone on the fret 1-5 area , sounds good from here run the line ! Haha .

Just my thoughts don’t throw anything at me and incase you don’t know I have a LTG handicap card 😁
 

adorshki

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Maybe the reason I notice this is my extensive experience in voicing pianos.
Another reason I notice unevenness of tone is my recording experience.
I recognize a room's resonant frequency and use a parametric equalizer to attenuate that frequency range.
You can dial in any frequency, then change the width of frequency range (Q), and change the volume for only that range.
Some people use a white noise generator (equal energy at all frequencies) and a spectrum analyzer and third-octave equalizer to flatten out response of a room, though it only works at the one position the mic was in.
OK I'm satisfied with those creds.
I also have a lot of respect for Nuuska's creds so in the end I suspect you'd both agree on the basic concepts like equalization only being "correct" at the mic location.
(I used to sell the Heathkit Pink/White noise generator along with the Spectrum Analyzer that was designed exactly for that purpose, "tuning" your equalizer to a given room)
I haven't even listened to the vid since I agreed with the comments about distortions to the sound having several potential sources, especially the Youtube sound quality issues.
Somewhat surprisingly, the vids my girlfriend makes of me and uploads to Youtube for her own amusement sound better played back through her phone than through my desktop computer's supposed "high def" soundboard/speakers.
I attribute that to being played back through the same speaker they were recorded on, but Ray's comment about crazy YouTube compression "resonated" with me a little bit too.
Normally I like a "compressed" sound.

TICO - yes - on several places the low E-string does not sound as loud as A-string - but I still tend to "blame " his playing - maybe even recording ( of which we know nil)
But go find one real guitar and test it. It may not be your love, but without trying you´ll never know.
I agree there's still other potential reasons there besides the guitar, and as far as I can tell the only way to verify if it's the guitar itself is to get ahold of that guitar.
Otherwise the real answer is what you say: try another one to see if it does the same thing, which would tend to confirm Ray's point about poor voicing possibly being inherent in the design.
 

Tico

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OK I'm satisfied with those creds.

With all due respect, the heck with anyone's "creds", including my own.
I just explained what in my background may explain my noticing this.
I assumed everyone would, but clearly I'm wrong.

This ain't rocket science.
Listen, think, and decide for yourself.
 
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Antney

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My creds are pretty good. I have an associates degree in medical office management and a certificate of completion from THE American Institute of Dog Walking. I still can’t hear any difference in the notes. I wish Tom in Las Vegas would drink a bottle or two of wine and weigh in. I like Toms creds.
 

fronobulax

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With all due respect, the heck with anyone's "creds".

Listen, think, and decide for yourself.

Don't hear it. Can't explain it. Appreciate people sharing their "creds" because that suggests to me who I should pay attention to and who I should ignore when trying to explain what I don't hear. That is one of the ways I learn.
 

Antney

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My creds are pretty good. I have an associates degree in medical office management and a certificate of completion from THE American Institute of Dog Walking. I still can’t hear any difference in the notes. I wish Tom in Las Vegas would drink a bottle or two of wine and weigh in. I like Toms creds.

Hey Tico...how old are you? It could simply be younger ears hearing more frequency. Most of us are 50+
 

GuildFS4612CE

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Good point Antney


With all due respect, the heck with anyone's "creds", including my own.
I just explained what in my background may explain my noticing this.
I assumed everyone would, but clearly I'm wrong.

This ain't rocket science.
Listen, think, and decide for yourself.

Tico, Therein lies the problem...I suppose we all like to think what we hear and see is exactly the way everyone else perceives it...no two of us are wired the same...even with your experience and background, someone else having the same, still won't hear/see things the same...mother nature ain't perfect and neither are we...it isn't about anyone being right or wrong...it's about being different...I have no doubt you hear what you hear...I haven't listened to it as I know that I have an old laptop and low quality headphones...and I'm sitting in a public library...no matter what is recorded, it's only as good as what it's being played back on, the room conditions, the full moon...whatever...this is a good learning experience for everyone.
 
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