My NS Starfire wood seems to have opened up?! Roars now!

lungimsam

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Not sure if the wood matured or the changes I made did it but over the last year I did this:

1. Put on D'Addario Chromes highest guage flats set.
2. Removed plastic pickup ring and just mounted pup on the instrument face.
3. Raised pole pieces.

That was about 6 months or so ago. Not a big diff happened in sound at that time. But sound was noticeably better and less overdriven than when the ring was in place and the pup was too close to strings.
Then about a month ago:

4. Removed and reattached bridge to get break angle steeper at bridges the way I wanted. Had to reset those two big mounting screws in the back of the harp, so had to remove first.
5. Reset my neck relief to business card height.
6. Set string height at 8/64 for all strings at 17th fret.
7. Readjusted pole pieces.

Then it opened up and now roars.
So I don't know if all the changes did it, or if the wood "opened up", as I used to hear musicians back in the 70's and 80's say about string instruments sounding better when they "opened up" after a few years. But it sound fantastic!

Did you notice a change for the better suddenly after the first few years you had your Starfire?
 

adorshki

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I'm gonna take a guess it's actually the cumulative changes, primarily because those're laminated tops and bodies, and those aren't known for "opening up", they operate under a different set of rules.
It's usually heard about solid-topped acoustics.
Mounting the pickups directly to the top definitely could affect the way they're affected by body resonance, and the R&R of the bridge could have an effect on the resonance itself, and dialing in the pole heights may have been the coupe de ville, er, coup de gras.
Ideally real owners'll confirm or refute my guesses.
:friendly_wink:
 

Minnesota Flats

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I would guess that pole piece adjustments would be the most likely candidate as well.
 

fronobulax

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I am confused about raising the pole pieces and saying that was an improvement compared to when the PU was too close to the strings but...

Having various Bisonic flavors in various basses there is definitely a difference in sound between a solid body and the Starfires.

I found adjusting the pole pieces makes a big difference. I'm not sure I have any experience with the other changes.

I don't care whether my NS roars but it would be nice if it sounded closer to my '67 or my memories of gilded's '66 :) But that is why I have two, I guess.
 

adorshki

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I am confused about raising the pole pieces and saying that was an improvement compared to when the PU was too close to the strings but...
First he removed the pickup rings and mounted directly to body, would that not have lowered 'em a bit?
And then on the second go 'round he "re-adjusted" 'em, didn't say he specifically raised 'em that time.
 

mellowgerman

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Yes! Heavy chromes, remove pickup ring, and raise poles has been my formula of preference for starfire optimization... actually my 1966 starfire taught me these tricks... came to me without the pickup ring and the only flats i had on hand were heavy chromes. Boom!
 

lungimsam

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Originally the bass sounded good but somehow started to sound overdriven over time - even when I sunk the poles deeper into the pup. I noticed the pup housing was so close to the strings. Was I imagining things?!?! Couldn’t understand what was going on. Could not get poles far enough away to stop the overdrive.

After removing plastic ring and mounting pup flat on face, I then had oodles of space. At first I liked the poles so far away but then adjusted them up above the face of pup and now sounds great. They are still further away than when pup was on ring. There is another thread here where I talked about this issue and I think asked if anyone had tried mounting pup without ring and mellow german chimed in with info and pics of his bass.

I usually use heavyish Chromes on all my basses. Before Chromes I used LaBella Deep Talkin .109, and .110 sets. But Chromes are much punchier and bright with well defined fundamental and minimal overtones so I like them better. Took the heaviest Chromes to get the string tension I wanted for best playability on the Starfire. I like high tension. Wish they made a little higher tension on the E and A strings, too. But these are the best sounding strings yet on this bass. I have also tried Ric rounds, D’A rounds, LaBella flats, and Rotosound rounds. I like the Chromes best.

Now just needs new volume and tone pots as mine are more like on/off switches. Barely any rolloff. Volume swells impossible. Was always like that but now scratchy too.
 
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Minnesota Flats

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I've been using light ECB81 Chromes (45-65-80-100) for quite awhile and also like the stiffness relative to rounds (especially the E string). Main issue I've had with them is adjusting pole pieces and EQ in such a way that the G string is not noticeably too treble-sounding compared to E-A & D. I may have to experiment with a heavier-gauge set.
 

lungimsam

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I have the lighter 40-100 Chromes set on my Ric and the d and g strings sound a little brittle compared ro A and E.

But the heavy set on Starfire sounds consistant.
One thing about the Starfire is the notes all sound consistant and no dead spots, which is nice. Seems like short scales are better at that than medium and long scales. The notes on the Starfire are very uniform, which is nice, getting full sound from notes that I sometimes cannot get to ring so true on longscales. Like notes around the 4th fret on g string and 10th fret on d string areas. On my longer scales they sound deadish there and don’t ring as loud as the other areas of the neck and less sustain.
But it is so nice to not have this problem with the Starfire. All the notes are very uniform and ring out nicely. Really is a luxuriant fingerboard.
 

Minnesota Flats

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QUESTION: have any of you used ECB82 (long-scale) Chromes (50-70-85-105) on your SF (either Newark or vintage MIA)?

If so, did the fat part of the E or G string (down below the silk) get wound onto the tuner post. If so, did it cause any increased tendency for string breakage?

Any opening up of the nut slots needed?

Just thought I'd ask before investing in a set.
 

mellowgerman

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That's the set that I use. Chromes have always been flexible enough to where the steel can wrap around the peg with no problems. Nut slots did need to be widened a bit. For the record, same deal with heavy Fender flats.
 

Happy Face

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The thoughts on pickup surrounds is interesting. Never crossed my mind.
 

lungimsam

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D'Addario ECB82 Chromes Flats (50-70-85-105) 224 lbs. set. -about a year and no probs.
LaBella .110 set were on about a year and also no probs.
I think both sets the silk wraps fine on E and G posts but not in A and D post. But no probs.
I also have the D’A on my Pbass no problems at least a year on that bass, too!!
 
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lungimsam

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Yes I recut nut. Easy with the right files.
Messed up first time.
~16$ to get new nut direct from Guild,iirc.
Tip: Don’t rock file side to side like people say online. Just file straight downward but tip file back to go along with break angle of headstock if you are lowering action at nut, which I needed to do on second nut.
It is an NS Starfire with the D'Addario ECB82 Chromes Flats (50-70-85-105) 224 lbs. set.
 
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lungimsam

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Now if I could just replace the harness with something less buzzy and get pots that actually work instead of being on/off knobs.

But at least I got the tone good now.
Hopefully will start playing it at church soon. But I’d like to get the electronic hum gone. Too bad Guild doesn’t make a Bisonic Humbucker and shielded wiring.
 

lungimsam

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No need for plastic ring and looks and sounds better in my opinion. I have another thread about the pup surround removal and one with pics of pup and cavity.

The thoughts on pickup surrounds is interesting. Never crossed my mind.
 

fronobulax

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Now if I could just replace the harness with something less buzzy and get pots that actually work instead of being on/off knobs.

But at least I got the tone good now.
Hopefully will start playing it at church soon. But I’d like to get the electronic hum gone. Too bad Guild doesn’t make a Bisonic Humbucker and shielded wiring.

I think every bass I have ever played either had "on/off" tone controls or had a single "set it and forget it" spot. (So the NS correctly mimics the '67 in this regard. My Bisonic volumes tend to have a second setting, about 7 on a Guild knob, where to my ears hum is reduced and the overall tone is less full. Point is you may be looking for something that is hard to find or might not work as you hope. If it does, plus publish specs and part numbers :) I do use the volume and it is much more nuanced. I usually have to set the amp and leave it alone and I will tweak it depending upon who I am accompanying.

Mellow posted about a Curtis Novak Mudbucker which had many options including an approximation to a humbucking Bisonic. That might be something to consider.
 

mavuser

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hi lungimsam,

believe it or not, your NS Bisonic pickup may be “picking up” your wifi signal. This is common among signal coils, if and when wifi somehow interferes. maybe shut down the radar for a few hours and test the bass? also I have a new in the packaging NS SF-1 bass harness if u need one. but is likely more of what u already have. shes here for u though if u want to know for sure! ha
 

lungimsam

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OK, thanks.

I will have to research what is the best wiring and pots/cap for my needs. Not sure about another pup. Unless the novak is split coil or humbucking, which I think it isn't since it is a repro of the Bisonic. But I could email him to find out. Maybe he can tell me whch harness parts would help me the best.
At least the tone sounds great now. Just gotta get rid of the hum/buzz.
My Pbasses and Ric bass have nice CTS volume and tone pots that are full sweep. Wierd that SF not that way. Either bad pots or purposely designed that way. But I think bad pots. Still can be used to one's advantage like frono has done. Very creative.
If I can figure out a way to solve the noise issue, I am sure I will be excited enough to pot a thread about it.
 

Happy Face

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OK, thanks.

I will have to research what is the best wiring and pots/cap for my needs. Not sure about another pup. Unless the novak is split coil or humbucking, which I think it isn't since it is a repro of the Bisonic. But I could email him to find out. Maybe he can tell me whch harness parts would help me the best.
At least the tone sounds great now. Just gotta get rid of the hum/buzz.
My Pbasses and Ric bass have nice CTS volume and tone pots that are full sweep. Wierd that SF not that way. Either bad pots or purposely designed that way. But I think bad pots. Still can be used to one's advantage like frono has done. Very creative.
If I can figure out a way to solve the noise issue, I am sure I will be excited enough to pot a thread about it.

The link from our Fiery German suggests it can be a humbucker.

You can wire them...
•Humbucking series in phase for a very powerful Mudbucker like tone (Out of phase is even more muddy)
•Humbucking parallel for a Starfire/Bisonic tone but humcanceled.
•Single coil mode for a single Starfire/Bisonic tone.
 
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