F50R buzz

Cougar

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Broke out the F50R (New Hartford 2011) to find the action had gone from "just right" to "too low," apparently. I got buzz on several strings. Very slight neck relief looks fine; straight-edge along the fretboard points right to the top of the bridge; the saddle isn't low, not real high, either. So, um, what's the story? Does it need a slight bit of added height to the saddle? A new nut? The buzz is not around the cowboy chords but higher up the neck...

I'll probably take it in to my local luthier, but what are your diagnoses, doctors?
 

adorshki

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Broke out the F50R (New Hartford 2011) to find the action had gone from "just right" to "too low," apparently. I got buzz on several strings. Very slight neck relief looks fine; straight-edge along the fretboard points right to the top of the bridge; the saddle isn't low, not real high, either. So, um, what's the story? Does it need a slight bit of added height to the saddle? A new nut? The buzz is not around the cowboy chords but higher up the neck...

I'll probably take it in to my local luthier, but what are your diagnoses, doctors?

What FNG said is relevant, humidity decrease might have dried and shrunken the top a bit, thus dropping the action, but it might be "addressable" with just a relief tweak (add a little).
I recall someone saying a while back that they kept 2 saddles for the different parts of the year because the geometry changed that much from humid to dry season.
 

wileypickett

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I know of guitarists who have "summer saddles" and "winter saddles," which they switch depending on humidity levels, which can affect the action.
 

adorshki

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Yeah, but don't guitars swell in the summer, raising the action?

That has been my experience.

Depends on where you live, some places have really humid summers (Michigan's supposed to be that way, but in counterpoint I think I recall at least one member having to consider that his central air might actually make the humidity inside his abode too dry).
I'm lucky enough to live in a place where the swings normally stay within the ideal 45-55% range with only occasional and short (2 or 3 days) periods outside of that.
Cougar is moving from So Cal( where I think the average humidity would be similar to the Bay Area's), to Idaho where I have no clue about what the average RH is or how it varies, and I don't know if he's actually there yet.
But it could be the explanation for the problem if the guitar's adjusting to a new climate.
I think that's all FNG and I were getting at.
 

twocorgis

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I always go to my guy in situations like this, because I have no business making adjustments on any of mine, and he's so good and reasonable. That's my recommendation.
 

Cougar

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I always go to my guy in situations like this, because I have no business making adjustments on any of mine, and he's so good and reasonable. That's my recommendation.

I am with you on that.

I'm actually in Salt Lake (the city, that is). It's dry. And hot. All guitars are in their cases, though, and I keep 'em humidified. I'll see what the pro repairman says.....
 

bobouz

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I am with you on that.

I'm actually in Salt Lake (the city, that is). It's dry. And hot.

So the house that sold was in South Pasadena, but you're living in Salt Lake City & moving to the Sandpoint area. No doubt about it, that's one heck of an improvement!

We drove through Salt Lake City in early June, on our way from the Oregon coast to Bryce Canyon & Zion. Temp was in the 90s (not something I enjoy), but what really got me was that the speed limit on I-15 through the heart of downtown is 70mph - and coupled with the volume of traffic, it's sheer madness!
 

Cougar

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We drove through Salt Lake City in early June, on our way from the Oregon coast to Bryce Canyon & Zion. Temp was in the 90s (not something I enjoy), but what really got me was that the speed limit on I-15 through the heart of downtown is 70mph - and coupled with the volume of traffic, it's sheer madness!

Oh, no question - people here are crazy.
 

fronobulax

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I know of guitarists who have "summer saddles" and "winter saddles," which they switch depending on humidity levels, which can affect the action.

Also a common practice (bridge, not saddles, though) with other stringed instruments - cello, violin, viola, etc.
 

chazmo

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Cougs, of course having a luthier look at it for you is a good idea, and there could be some geometry changes going on that need to be looked at. But, given it's a NH guitar, I doubt it. Keep in mind that there's no harm in trying a slight adjustment on the truss rod (I'd go no more than a half-turn total). You might do a string change first and see if the change in tension (there will always be some) fixes the buzz for you, then try a 1/4 turn of relief (let the neck bow forward slightly). Of course, you might not like the feel of the guitar once you make slight TR adjustments and it's not necessarily going to help.

Glenn's probably right that a summer and winter saddle would keep the strings at the height you like it when temp/humidity change, but TR adjustments have helped me in the past.
 

Westerly Wood

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Cougar, are you using light gauge strings by chance? I noticed recently Br string buzzing high up neck on the skinny e string went away when i changed to mediums. i was even able to tighten the TR to bring the strings a little closer to fret board, still no buzzing. i have a long running theory the Br left Westerly in late 1971 strung with medium gauge 80/20 bronze strings. either La Bella or D'Addario.

unless, D'Addario was testing out their PB alloy still in development with Guild being an obvious silent partner :)

i know, total conspiracy theory here.
 
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All good advice. Check saddle height, check truss rod relief, check humidity levels, and look for high frets.
Easy to do yourself if you have the right tools. Check Stew Mac for the proper tools if you don’t already have them.
If you have a 24” straight edge, you could check for neck angle, but your guitar is so new, that’s probably not an issue.
And make sure you have fresh strings on it.
If you’re not comfortable doing this stuff yourself (and you really should be, don’t be intimidated by your guitar!), then get thee to a good tech!
Good luck and let us know how it goes!
 

Cougar

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If you have a 24” straight edge, you could check for neck angle, but your guitar is so new, that’s probably not an issue.

Mine's only 18". :redface: But the neck angle is right on.

I dropped it off at Guitar Czar, which has a couple of techs/luthiers. The intake guy said the neck looks good, it probably needs a shim under the saddle. At the time I didn't even think about suggesting they cut me a second saddle. Is that the consensus here? I can certainly give them a call before they work on it, since repair time is out two and a half weeks.

I also took in my Martin 12. It had a similar problem - not really a buzz, but a fretted string would be so close to some fret down the line that it would sound like a sitar. They had set it up a couple months ago and said bring it back if it needs a tweak after some weeks. The guy tweaked the truss rod a half turn then and there, which fixed it just fine. (The truss rod is way up under the soundhole on that Martin. That's one tool I could get....)

Just a touch of separation anxiety for my F50R.... :subdued:
 

adorshki

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I dropped it off at Guitar Czar, which has a couple of techs/luthiers. The intake guy said the neck looks good, it probably needs a shim under the saddle. At the time I didn't even think about suggesting they cut me a second saddle. Is that the consensus here?
It's been suggested before that a shim inevitably cuts down the amount of vibration getting into the bridge, because of the mechanical "break" between saddle and shim, no matter how tightly fitted.
Also, did they realize you've got a bone saddle? And are they aware that with a guitar like an NH F50, using a shim might well have be "audible" consequences, whereas it might be "ok" with lesser guitars?
:friendly_wink:
 

ClaytonS15

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Based on my experience with my 94 GV-52, it can be a number of things. In my case, the guitar needed a higher action (shim under the newly made bone saddle... grrr). But that really fixed it. Otherwise it could be a high fret. Sometimes the area where the neck joins the body can swell a bit with humidity changes and such. Definitely check and experiment with relief though as well. Best of luck! Certainly it’s fixable.
 

Cougar

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In my case, the guitar needed a higher action (shim under the newly made bone saddle... grrr). But that really fixed it....

Yeah, I'll have them drop in/make me another saddle that's a tad higher. And tell 'em to be careful of the undersaddle pickup! A new saddle is pretty inexpensive, as these things go. That ought to do it!

Sometimes the area where the neck joins the body can swell a bit with humidity changes and such.

I've heard several names for that dreaded "hump." This one didn't have it though.
 
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