12'' fretboard radius for MIA Guilds VS 16'' radius for MIC Guilds - Why?

ClydeTower

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Quite obviously I should stay out of the Radius waters. Makes no sense to me.

I think it's more about finding what feels good to you and sticking with that. I play a lot of barre chords, so it makes sense that a rounder radius makes it more comfortable and why I gravitate naturally towards MIA Guilds and Gibsons. Still haven't given up on finding an OM style Martin that I like... maybe a custom shop Martin with Guild neck specs!:wink-new:
 

adorshki

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I think it's more about finding what feels good to you and sticking with that. I play a lot of barre chords, so it makes sense that a rounder radius makes it more comfortable and why I gravitate naturally towards MIA Guilds and Gibsons. Still haven't given up on finding an OM style Martin that I like... maybe a custom shop Martin with Guild neck specs!:wink-new:

It occurs to me that you might find a luthier willing to re-profile a fretboard, as planing the board is a relatively common procedure when doing a refret.
 

Rayk

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Hmm I always liked the Epi’s Masterbilt necks fast little buggers .
So the Om-120 is 16” is that start to finish ?

My Wilborn is 14- 20 it’s quite comfortable to me start to finish . Until a moment ago I did not know what it was had to look up the order sheet .
 

adorshki

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Hmm I always liked the Epi’s Masterbilt necks fast little buggers .
So the Om-120 is 16” is that start to finish ?
If you mean is the radius constant, I'm sure it is, or else I'm sure they would have mentioned it.
It would add to cost of production.
 

CosmicArkie

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It occurs to me that you might find a luthier willing to re-profile a fretboard, as planing the board is a relatively common procedure when doing a refret.

I'm not a luthier, I don't even play one on tv, but my A-25 is now sporting a 1 & 11/16" nut, with a neck re-profile to match the rest of the clan with that nut size, and is perfectly playable for me. I made some go/no go gauges out of plexiglass (for visibility) for the nut; 3rd fret; 5th fret; 10th fret to get the correct taper.

Sitting beside the desk is a '60ish Harmony 173 classical that is going to receive the same treatment, with the re-profiled fretboard & new frets.
 

Rayk

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I'm not a luthier, I don't even play one on tv, but my A-25 is now sporting a 1 & 11/16" nut, with a neck re-profile to match the rest of the clan with that nut size, and is perfectly playable for me. I made some go/no go gauges out of plexiglass (for visibility) for the nut; 3rd fret; 5th fret; 10th fret to get the correct taper.

Sitting beside the desk is a '60ish Harmony 173 classical that is going to receive the same treatment, with the re-profiled fretboard & new frets.

Cool would like seen pics as you went . :)
 

Rayk

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If you mean is the radius constant, I'm sure it is, or else I'm sure they would have mentioned it.
It would add to cost of production.

I’ll agree with that . 😁
 

swiveltung

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It's when you do bends that it becomes an issue. A rounder fretboard will fret out sooner than a flat one. It's physics.

I understand that. But at that point the string is against the fret no matter what the radius is. So what does that have to do with "allowing lower string height"? String height is 0 when bending. Now if he had said "allows bending without fretting out" It would make sense. :>)

In the case of a compound radius, that would require higher string action I would think. On the outside of the board on the higher frets, the flatter radius is higher than the lower frets right?
 
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ClydeTower

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I understand that. But at that point the string is against the fret no matter what the radius is. So what does that have to do with "allowing lower string height"? String height is 0 when bending. Now if he had said "allows bending without fretting out" It would make sense. :>)

This is my understanding, but please take it with a grain of salt. Somebody here probably has a much better explanation:

I think its because when you bend the string, its no longer perpendicular with the frets and the more you bend, the more it crosses the frets at an angle. On a flat fretboard, the distance between the string and the fret will remain constant once bended. On a rounded fretboard, the distance between the string and frets will diminish the more you bend because of the arc. Hence, the string height (action) must be adjusted accordingly on a radiused fretboard to avoid buzzing or fretting out.

Again, this is the way I understand it, but I might be wrong... Personally, I've never had this issue with a 12'' radius and I bend a lot.
 
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F312

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With strong fingers at hand, "I" really don't think it matters that much as far as bending the strings.
 

Nuuska

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Hello

Interesting geometric dilemma here.

Since the fretboard is narrower at nut and wider in body end, the curvature should change from shorter at nut to longer at body. Think of the fretboard as section of round pyramid or cardioid. Then fretboard edges and all strings were aimed towards vanishing point or tip of pyramid - and spreading evenly towards bridge - and saddle, frets and nut would simply all be a concentric arc with slightly larger radius to lift the strings to desired height.

In the Guild factory video they showed a belt sander with an adapter for neck. They were swinging the neck to and fro to sand it to shape. I did not see it - but if the body end support arm were longer than the nut-end support arm - then it would be easy to achieve the desired shape.

If we had a set of radius gauges, it would be an easy test.

And bending fretted strings sideways goes best with flat or bigger radius - as Clyde said.

p.s. actually - when you look at a violin or upright bass, it is quite clear, that the radius changes - on guitars not that much.
 

ClydeTower

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I sent a line to Cordoba and asked them about their choice of going with a 16'' radius on imports. Here's their response:

Hey Claude!

Thanks for your patience! I was able to talk to our President and some designers today.

Guild USA has traditionally had the 12" radius, so we stuck with that for obvious reasons.

As for why we did the 16" radius on the import guitars, ultimately it was a decision we made based on the other guitars in the price point. We were trying to reach the widest audience that would be looking for guitars in that range, and that seems to speak to a wider range to people.

I'm with you, though, in that I prefer the 12" radius. It's a great suggestion to at least offer some options in the import line with that radius.

Thanks for asking, and let me know if you have any other questions!




So it seems at least that it was Cordoba that decided on these specs. As for the reasoning, I wasn't aware that other guitar manufacturers at this price point had a preference for 16''. As I continue the hunt, I'll make a point a looking at that spec, see if there's a tendency here, as there seems to be with manufacturers moving from 1 11/16'' to 1 3/4'' nuts.
 
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Nuuska

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Clyde

While you have the connection - could you ask if the radius is the same all through the fretboard.

Thank you
 

ClydeTower

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Clyde

While you have the connection - could you ask if the radius is the same all through the fretboard.

Thank you

The response from Cordoba is that the radius is constant on all builds MIA and MIC.
No plans for compound radius in the future.

They mention that a USA OM build is on the radar for Oxnard, not the next one in line for production, but definitely on the list :)
 

adorshki

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The response from Cordoba is that the radius is constant on all builds MIA and MIC.
No plans for compound radius in the future.

They mention that a USA OM build is on the radar for Oxnard, not the next one in line for production, but definitely on the list :)

Well heck, while you're at it, could ya ask 'em why no 16" lower bout jumbo?
(You know, my bug-a-boo "real" F40 or F47?)
:friendly_wink:
 

adorshki

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Remind me about your holy grail specs again?

OH I'll be happy if they just confirm they still have the body bucks and plans to use 'em.

Otherwise, my "pipe dream" custom order would be F40 w/ arched rosewood back ; 24-3/4 scale full 2-octave neck with 1-11/16 nut; closed tuners. The nut width is critical, for me, it's that width on the 24-3/4" neck that's so hard to find, on a full-depth F40 body.
Heck even a 24-7/8" or 25" scale'd probably work, just looking for something a little bit easier on my stretching hand than the 3 I have now.
I'm not real fussy about "bling" like block inlays, G-shield, etc.
But if they contemplate positioning it where the F40 used to reside, right next to the F50; then bling certainly isn't a turn-off to me.
Maybe another way of looking at it would be a revival of the F47Rce except for the scale/nut width.
I'd probably be flexible about whether the back was arched too, with rosewood.
 
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ClydeTower

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OH I'll be happy if they just confirm they still have the body bucks and plans to use 'em.

Otherwise, my "pipe dream" custom order would be F40 w/ arched rosewood back ; 24-3/4 scale full 2-octave neck with 1-11/16 nut; closed tuners. The nut width is critical, for me, it's that width on the 24-3/4" neck that's so hard to find, on a full-depth F40 body.
Heck even a 24-7/8" or 25" scale'd probably work, just looking for something a little bit easier on my stretching hand than the 3 I have now.
I'm not real fussy about "bling" like block inlays, G-shield, etc.
But if they contemplate positioning it where the F40 used to reside, right next to the F50; then bling certainly isn't a turn-off to me.
Maybe another way of looking at it would be a revival of the F47Rce except for the scale/nut width.
I'd probably be flexible about whether the back was arched too, with rosewood.


Ok, so word is there are a couple of jumbos in the works, no ETA as of yet. No details on specs either.
However, one bit of information that did catch my attention and that you will certainly be happy to hear:

A custom shop is definitely on the radar, so says the head honcho at CMG. So keep those holy grail plans ready. You might get a shot at your dream guitar sooner than you think :wink-new:
 

chazmo

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I hope that's true, Claude. We waited for over 5 years to really get custom models from New Hartford, but it wasn't in the cards. The good news is that CMG only has to look towards El Cajon to know how to make it happen.
 
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