Newark St Starfire III with Vibramate

johnreardon

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I raised a thread here a couple of weeks ago about replacing a Bigsby on a Starfire III. My conclusion, right or wrong, was that I would have to drill holes in the guitar or any replacement Harp Tailpiece to make it work.

Kslam pointed me to a Vibramate Spoiler that would make stringing the guitar easier whilst retaining the Bigsby

http://www.vibramate.com/vibramate-string-spoiler.php

So I took a plunge and ordered one. Had a bit of time this afternoon so I snapped off the nearly new strings and went about fitting the spoiler. At first I thought it wouldn't fit as the rectangular holes only appeared to cover 4 of the string pins and I also couldn't get the end pieces Bits that hold both E strings) past the Bigsby sides. After a few minutes of struggling, I raised the Bigsby up away from the guitar, with one hand and managed to snap the spoiler in. It's a tight fit but it will go. Then got a new set of strings out and 5 minutes later, 6 new strings on, way quicker that with the Bigsby.

So has it altered the guitar in any way? The action is maybe slightly up, although to be honest, I didn't really measure it beforehand. The string pull from the bridge is probably slightly straighter, but no issue. The only clear thing, apart from the easier string change, is that the Bigsby arm is a lot tighter when pushed right back. It doesn't matter to me as I never us the thing and as long as it stays back, I'm happy.

So many thanks to Kslam

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Quantum Strummer

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I have the Spoilers on a few guitars and like 'em. Since putting one on my Gretsch I've been using the Bigsby more 'cuz the guitar just stays in tune better. On a couple recent acquisitions, though, I decided not to use 'em 'cuz the string break angle over the guitars' bridges is already kinda shallow.

-Dave-
 

dbirchett

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A question for you (or anyone who has used these). How does it change the action of the Bigsby? The tension bar Bigsbys (B5, B7) are notorious for being stiffer than the standards (B3, B6). I have used the Reverend Soft Spring and it made a world of difference. Does this change the stiffness of the action?
 

Mr. Lumbergh

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If the bridge hasn't changed position, there's no good reason why the action should've changed. It does seem like it would make the trem more sensitive though as it would relax the strings more quickly; is that your experience?
My Guild doesn't have a Bigs on it but both my Gretsches do. The 5622T, which is a tension-bar design, stays in tune better when I just bypass the tension bar completely and strong over it. When restringing both, I grab the ball end with a pair of needlenose pliers and bend a semicircle in it. Restringing isn't any more difficult at that point.
 

johnreardon

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If the bridge hasn't changed position, there's no good reason why the action should've changed. It does seem like it would make the trem more sensitive though as it would relax the strings more quickly; is that your experience?
My Guild doesn't have a Bigs on it but both my Gretsches do. The 5622T, which is a tension-bar design, stays in tune better when I just bypass the tension bar completely and strong over it. When restringing both, I grab the ball end with a pair of needlenose pliers and bend a semicircle in it. Restringing isn't any more difficult at that point.
Maybe the bridge moved slightly or more probably it's exactly the same.

As I said I don't use the trem when gigging, but if anything I would say it's less sensitive after the change. The arm is certainly stiffer.

I did use the stringing method you mention, also put a capo on around the 10th fret, but it's still a pain compared to my other guitars. With the vibramate on, re-stringing is a lot easier.
 

johnreardon

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A question for you (or anyone who has used these). How does it change the action of the Bigsby? The tension bar Bigsbys (B5, B7) are notorious for being stiffer than the standards (B3, B6). I have used the Reverend Soft Spring and it made a world of difference. Does this change the stiffness of the action?

The arm is certainly a lot stiffer with the vibramate on, but as I don't use the Bigsby when gigging it doesn't worry me. It may concern those who use the Bigsby and prefer a light touch.
 

Quantum Strummer

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On my Gretsch Chet Atkins the Bigsby action is a little tighter with the Spoiler, but the spring is quite soft and I don't mind the extra firmness. The string break angle from the bridge to the Bigsby is shallower, which seems to have improved tuning stability. (Though I also cleaned & lubed all moving parts & friction points when I put on the Spoiler.) On my two '70s SGs with Gibson branded B7-lites I don't use the Bigsbys—in fact I've removed the arms (but not the springs)—so the Spoilers are there just to save a little re-stringing time.

-Dave-
 

Kslam

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I raised a thread here a couple of weeks ago about replacing a Bigsby on a Starfire III. My conclusion, right or wrong, was that I would have to drill holes in the guitar or any replacement Harp Tailpiece to make it work.

Kslam pointed me to a Vibramate Spoiler that would make stringing the guitar easier whilst retaining the Bigsby

http://www.vibramate.com/vibramate-string-spoiler.php

So I took a plunge and ordered one. Had a bit of time this afternoon so I snapped off the nearly new strings and went about fitting the spoiler. At first I thought it wouldn't fit as the rectangular holes only appeared to cover 4 of the string pins and I also couldn't get the end pieces Bits that hold both E strings) past the Bigsby sides. After a few minutes of struggling, I raised the Bigsby up away from the guitar, with one hand and managed to snap the spoiler in. It's a tight fit but it will go. Then got a new set of strings out and 5 minutes later, 6 new strings on, way quicker that with the Bigsby.

So has it altered the guitar in any way? The action is maybe slightly up, although to be honest, I didn't really measure it beforehand. The string pull from the bridge is probably slightly straighter, but no issue. The only clear thing, apart from the easier string change, is that the Bigsby arm is a lot tighter when pushed right back. It doesn't matter to me as I never us the thing and as long as it stays back, I'm happy.

So many thanks to Kslam

Excellent! Glad to hear it worked out.

The Spoiler doesn't change the height of the bridge, so the action should be exactly as it was before.
 

Kslam

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A question for you (or anyone who has used these). How does it change the action of the Bigsby? The tension bar Bigsbys (B5, B7) are notorious for being stiffer than the standards (B3, B6). I have used the Reverend Soft Spring and it made a world of difference. Does this change the stiffness of the action?

I've never noticed the tension becoming any stiffer once the spoiler is on and I am very picky about getting the feel of the Bigsby the way I like it, auditioning several Bigsby springs before finding the right match for a particular guitar.

In any case, if the Spoiler doesn't appeal to you, you could go for this solution instead: http://www.callahamguitars.com/bigsby_bridge_mainstringshaft_catalog.htm
 
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Guildadelphia

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Nice. Must make stringing a lot easier, especially on a B-7 w/ the tension bar. Don't have 'em on any of by Bigsby guitars but see why people like them.
 

johnreardon

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Excellent! Glad to hear it worked out.

The Spoiler doesn't change the height of the bridge, so the action should be exactly as it was before.

Cheers, It's probably just me with the action. I don't actually play the SIII much, so not used to slightly higher than my LPs
 

Nuuska

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Hello

When you write that the Bigsby gets stiffer - there is simple geometric reason for it.

Originally - let´s make simple arbitrary assumption - when you push the Bigsby arm down 1/2 inch the tuning drops one half-step.

With Vibramate the strings are held further back and mostly move upwards and only slightly forward - so tuning drops less.

Therefore - to achieve same pitch effect you have to press harder with Vibramate.

I will give names to Vibramates sections.

1st - curve around Bigsby shaft
2nd - bend to level with guitar top
3rd - bend to go up
4th - curve around string end balls

If you take a hacksaw and extend the string slot to 2nd bend you will get back to original action - or even little more, since the radius of the shaft increases - but all movements are circumferential.
Or - if you twist the 2nd bend a bit open to get the ball ends higher, then the forward motion componet will increase - but at same time strings will be too high and pressure on bridge will get lesser.

So - perhaps Vibramate was designed to make Bigsby more subtle and so get better tuning stability.
Or - they wanted that space there to put their name on it without any further thinking.
 

johnreardon

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Hello

When you write that the Bigsby gets stiffer - there is simple geometric reason for it.

Originally - let´s make simple arbitrary assumption - when you push the Bigsby arm down 1/2 inch the tuning drops one half-step.

With Vibramate the strings are held further back and mostly move upwards and only slightly forward - so tuning drops less.

Therefore - to achieve same pitch effect you have to press harder with Vibramate.

I will give names to Vibramates sections.

1st - curve around Bigsby shaft
2nd - bend to level with guitar top
3rd - bend to go up
4th - curve around string end balls

If you take a hacksaw and extend the string slot to 2nd bend you will get back to original action - or even little more, since the radius of the shaft increases - but all movements are circumferential.
Or - if you twist the 2nd bend a bit open to get the ball ends higher, then the forward motion componet will increase - but at same time strings will be too high and pressure on bridge will get lesser.

So - perhaps Vibramate was designed to make Bigsby more subtle and so get better tuning stability.
Or - they wanted that space there to put their name on it without any further thinking.
Hi it's not that pressing down the Bigsby is stiffer, it's that when you move the arm back, as for storage in the case, it's extremely stiff once you get past the tone controls. I can live with it as I never use thing.
 
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