Silk and Phosphor vs Steel and Silk

leehop71

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Comparing apples to apples (having these strings compared on the same guitar) what is the consensus on volume and longevity?

Are they about the same, or does one have a little more punch and longevity than the other?

TIA,
Lee
 

chazmo

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Hmm, Lee... I'm not familiar with silk and phosphor, though I see my favorite string maker (John Pearse) makes these... I think I'd like to try these!

For the record, what they're talking about here is the wire that's used for the windings on the wound strings only, which is phosphor-bronze. I don't know what's typically used on silk and steel strings, but Martin winds some sort of silver-plated copper, which I take it is neither nickel-bronze nor phosphor-bronze....

Anyway, love to hear more about these.
 

adorshki

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Comparing apples to apples (having these strings compared on the same guitar) what is the consensus on volume and longevity?

Are they about the same, or does one have a little more punch and longevity than the other?

TIA,
Lee

Lee I think you asked this before, and I'm not sure I understand the question.
"Silk'n'steel" generically refers to sets whose wound strings use a nylon winding between the (steel) core and the winding, but still have steel unwounds.
I don't think there are any of those that use anything but a PB winding, since that's supposed to be "warmer" sounding anyway, which is part of the reason to use "S'n's" at all.***
In any case, PB will tend to have a longer life than a "steel" winding as it's more corrosion resistant.
The converse, if you're actually seeing non-Pb wound "Silk Core" set for steel string flat-tops, is that yes I'd expect 'em to be "brighter".

***ok I see Chaz mentions Martin offers a sliver-plated "copper" set but I have a suspicion that's actually a plated bronze, as plain copper'd be too soft for strings, and bronze is a copper-alloy of roughly 90% copper and 10% tin, in simplest form.
 
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chazmo

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. . .
I don't think there are any of those that use anything but a PB winding, since that's supposed to be "warmer" sounding anyway, which is part of the reason to use "S'n's" at all.
. . .

Nope. PB is not (typically) used on silk and steel winding wire, Al. According to some research, GHS and Martin both use some sort of silver-plated copper for winding wire on their silk and steel strings.

That was news to me.
 

Westerly Wood

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to my ears the JP silk and pbs win out as they sound most like their regular PB strings but a tad easier on the fingers. they last a good while too. both the martin and D'A i have tried were real weak sounding and playing. YMMV

but if we are talking a dread, there really is no comparison. JPs all the way.
 

adorshki

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Nope. PB is not (typically) used on silk and steel winding wire, Al. According to some research, GHS and Martin both use some sort of silver-plated copper for winding wire on their silk and steel strings.

That was news to me.

Yeah, me too.
It caused me, the D'Addario purist, to do more digging.
D'as are "Pb", the copper alloy.
And I see this from GHS's site:

"GHS Silk and Bronze™ acoustic guitar strings feature a unique silk and steel core wound with Phosphor Bronze cover wire to create a warm, mellow tone with a soft feel. Silk & Bronze™ strings are ideal for live performances and have impressive sustain and low finger noise for the studio."

BUT by golly their "Silk'n'steel " says silver-plated copper.
If it's truly pure copper and not an alloy I'm gonna say they're definitely gonna have a shorter string life than the pb, because copper's softer.
It's the whole reason bronze superceded copper in the bronze age when bronze alloy was discovered, it's harder and more durable.
Still I have a suspicion it really is a bronze alloy, just not phosphor bronze, and maybe of a very low percentage of tin/nickel to allow it to be a little softer.
I Also saw Martin specifically reference a "copper compound".
Maybe technically the alloys don't qualify as "bronze" but to me Martin's terminology is "telling", that it's not actually pure copper..
Let's not forget that copper wire was invented by two Scots fighting over a penny.
It's that soft.
:biggrin-new:
(As a proud Scot I feel entitled to share that joke)
:friendly_wink:
 
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chazmo

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Yeah, my experience with all the silk and steels I've played over the years were that the windings definitely weren't PB... I would really like to try these PB-wound ones, and I didn't even know they existed.

Thanks, Lee!
 

adorshki

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Yeah, my experience with all the silk and steels I've played over the years were that the windings definitely weren't PB... I would really like to try these PB-wound ones, and I didn't even know they existed.

Thanks, Lee!
Yep, I learned something too!
 

adorshki

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To get as close to apples to apples comparison, these are the 2 I was looking at with very similar gauge specs,

https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/?model=ecmwf®ion=us&pkg=z500_mslp

https://www.stringsandbeyond.com/jope61siphbr.html

Lee that first link is a meteorological site.
However, I'd take Westerly Wood's input about the JP's any day of the week, he tries out lots of different strings, because it's cheaper than buying new axes, as he himself mentioned recently.
:friendly_wink:
 

Rayk

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Yeah, me too.
It caused me, the D'Addario purist, to do more digging.
D'as are "Pb", the copper alloy.
And I see this from GHS's site:

"GHS Silk and Bronze™ acoustic guitar strings feature a unique silk and steel core wound with Phosphor Bronze cover wire to create a warm, mellow tone with a soft feel. Silk & Bronze™ strings are ideal for live performances and have impressive sustain and low finger noise for the studio."

BUT by golly their "Silk'n'steel " says silver-plated copper.
If it's truly pure copper and not an alloy I'm gonna say they're definitely gonna have a shorter string life than the pb, because copper's softer.
It's the whole reason bronze superceded copper in the bronze age when bronze alloy was discovered, it's harder and more durable.
Still I have a suspicion it really is a bronze alloy, just not phosphor bronze, and maybe of a very low percentage of tin/nickel to allow it to be a little softer.
I Also saw Martin specifically reference a "copper compound".
Maybe technically the alloys don't qualify as "bronze" but to me Martin's terminology is "telling", that it's not actually pure copper..
Let's not forget that copper wire was invented by two Scots fighting over a penny.
It's that soft.
:biggrin-new:
(As a proud Scot I feel entitled to share that joke)
:friendly_wink:

You guys expect weird from so I here to entertain:)
There is a Scientist or was up in NY that created a machine / device whatever you call it straight out Star Trek .

This machine changes the molecular structure of a item . Example , changes porcelain to translucent..

What it does to copper is really cool . It changes the density hmm not sure that’s exactly right but maybe . It takes its structure reduces and adds more to it . Think of it like a welded wire fence 4x4 squares all the wires are the parts that conduct electricity the gaps are just that after procedure the fence is physically the same size but now 4x4 squares are 1/16th in nature making it in this case much more efficient and I guess stronger .

Maybe they found a way do this for the strings .... maybe not but it’s a true story anyway lol
 

Rayk

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Hmm Martin no make in 12’s 😑
 

dreadnut

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I have silk & phosphor on my 12-fret Loar "0" style guitar. More volume than the silk & steels, still great for fingerpicking.

I found that "Silk & Steel" means different things with different string makers.
 

Brucebubs

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I've used them both on a smallish rosewood guitar.
The Silk & Steels have a soft feel and warm tone but can be rather quiet. (Those Medium gauge La Bella's pictured are a great buy if you want to try them.)
Silk & Bronze surprised me, they feel and sound more like a warm set of Phos. Bronze, they have a little more volume too.

I was a fan of Silk & Steel but I think I now prefer Silk & Bronze.

I have John Pearse Silk & Bronze on this guitar at the moment.

9nqQgaYl.jpg
 
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I've used every brand/variety of "silk"-cored strings over the decades and settled on silk & bronze for several of my flat-tops--GHS usually, though Pearse, Martin, and Thomastik make good versions of this formula. "Silk & steel" do indeed have silvered-copper windings--adapted, from what I can tell, from classical strings (and the Savarez-manufactured Argentines used on Selmer-styles). They're softer-sounding and less durable than silk & bronze. I have two guitars braced for silk & steel, but when I discovered silk & bronze twenty-some years ago, I told the builder and he started using them himself. I've used the GHS lights (11-49) and medium-lights (12-54) on everything from a 1920 Martin to my 1965 D-40 and 1993ish Goodall, and they sound fine to me.
 

chazmo

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This is really exciting. I didn't think I could get excited over another string thread, but it is amazing how sometimes life really surprises you. :)
 
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