"Used" Stamp on Headstock or Fake? Help!

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Hey Guys

I am interested in picking up a used Guild off craigslist and was hoping I could get some information from you guys.

The guitar doesn't have a sticker on the inside that would say what model it is. And on the back of the headstock, it says "used." I have read that guitars that had flaws from the factory were stamped "used" and sold to a third party vendor. Can anyone confirm this?

The guitar is beautiful. If anyone could provide any info about it I would really appreciate it.

Also, how do I post pictures on here?
 

Rayk

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Most likely the guitar went through MIRC they repair blemishes and anything else that could wrong then sell to dealers . They put a new serial number over the scratched off original but they leave the original label along with a used stamp on bank of the head stock just to make sure no warranty claims can be attempted . Some people think by removing the whole thing it makes easier to sell , just a guess .
I bought two great MIRC guitars and just sold one . Sone guitars actually have nothing wrong with them but they have to go label process .

Post a link so the gang can check it out have no worries about anyone here jumping your claim we don’t do that .
 
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I wish I had a link. The owner actually contacted me to try and trade me for an amplifier I have listed on Craigslist.

If I could figure out how to upload pictures, I would!
 

fronobulax

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I wish I had a link. The owner actually contacted me to try and trade me for an amplifier I have listed on Craigslist.

If I could figure out how to upload pictures, I would!

Host elsewhere and link to them here.

Or wade through the FAQ http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?185122-FAQ-Posting-pictures-to-LTG

How an instrument that did not meet factory specs but was released to the market anyway is marked depends upon when it happened. (Note that I am deliberately not saying "second" or "B-stock" because people assign different meanings to the terms and confusion has resulted).

In the late '00's some instruments were sold through MIRC https://mircweb.com/ which refurbished, marked and resold. Typically MIRC obscured an existing label/serial number with a hard to remove sticker with a MIRC assigned serial number. The label being missing is not typical of MIRC.

New Hartford Guilds only had a the serial on a label. I can imagine an instrument not getting a label and getting stamped USED although I don't recall an example of when that was actually done. New Hartford didn't do much headstock stamping and non-cosmetic flaws usually went to a bandsaw although there are some cases where the bandsaw was actually an employee's home where an instrument was privately refurbished.

If you want more than history and speculation making the effort to upload pictures is your best bet.

Oh and Welcome.
 

richardp69

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My NH D 40 has the traditional sound hole label. It has no serial # and is marked in pen as used. I can't find a thing wrong with it and it looks and sounds great.
 

adorshki

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Hey Guys

I am interested in picking up a used Guild off craigslist and was hoping I could get some information from you guys.

The guitar doesn't have a sticker on the inside that would say what model it is. And on the back of the headstock, it says "used." I have read that guitars that had flaws from the factory were stamped "used" and sold to a third party vendor. Can anyone confirm this?
HI Brewster, welcome aboard!
Concept is correct although specific details may vary depending on when it happened, since Guild was using Musical Instrument Reclamation Corporation as a liquidating agent as far back as 2004 when they closed their Corona CA operation.
They could be warranty returns, "B stock" or simply unsold inventory .
Fender didn't offer warranty on the guitars at the liquidation price MIRC obtained them for, so MIRC always obscured the original s/n to prevent future unjustified warranty claims.
The guitar is beautiful. If anyone could provide any info about it I would really appreciate it.

Also, how do I post pictures on here?


We've also seen cases where an Made in China instrument had its label removed, presumably to disguise the county of origin since those guitars are significantly cheaper in the used market.
Some of those have been sold to MIRC, too.
There're lots of models from both sides of Guild so as others have said pics would be most helpful, but one thing will at least tell you if it's a Chinese-built instrument: those don't have truss rod covers, the truss adjusting nut is accessed from the soundhole,
NO US built Guild is built like that.
Typically the "MIRC guitars" can be great values, but you should be sure what exactly you're looking at to determine its fair value.
 

Brucebubs

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My F-412 has 'Used' stamped on the back of the headstock and you can see the handwritten serial number on the original factory label has a white strip with a machine printed number over it.
Guitar has a dull, cloudy faulty top coat.
Plays like a dream and sounds superb.

0YWXT5hl.jpg
 

adorshki

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My F-412 has 'Used' stamped on the back of the headstock and you can see the handwritten serial number on the original factory label has a white strip with a machine printed number over it.
Guitar has a dull, cloudy faulty top coat.
Plays like a dream and sounds superb.

0YWXT5hl.jpg

Bruce, a small thing but I notice you've got the F412 ID'd as an '01, but if it was, it'd have a Westerly label since '01 was last year of Westerly production.
(New production halted in August but in-process instruments and general clearing out of warehouse went on until December)
I'm 99.99% positive that's a Corona label in there which would make it an '02 at the earliest, and put it in that category of guitars from Corona, where Fender first started using MIRC (for Guilds, at least).
I've never seen a Westerly-built instrument from MIRC.
EDIT:
I see it is a Corona from your introductory post, but still positive it can't be earlier than an '02.
There is some "fog" around actual Corona build history, as to whether they were actually making production instruments while Westerly was still in operation (that's actually a definite "yes" in the case of electrics), but "technically" all the acoustic s/n's start in model year '02.
 
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Brucebubs

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Bruce, a small thing but I notice you've got the F412 ID'd as an '01, but if it was, it'd have a Westerly label since '01 was last year of Westerly production.
(New production halted in August but in-process instruments and general clearing out of warehouse went on until December)
I'm 99.99% positive that's a Corona label in there which would make it an '02 at the earliest, and put it in that category of guitars from Corona, where Fender first started using MIRC (for Guilds, at least).
I've never seen a Westerly-built instrument from MIRC.
EDIT:
I see it is a Corona from your introductory post, but still positive it can't be earlier than an '02.
There is some "fog" around actual Corona build history, as to whether they were actually making production instruments while Westerly was still in operation (that's actually a definite "yes" in the case of electrics), but "technically" all the acoustic s/n's start in model year '02.

Thanks for that information. Because of that sticker over the original serial number I was never sure of the build date and I just assumed it was an early Corona build with a production fault.
I'll change it to 2002.
 
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adorshki

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Thanks for that information. Because of that sticker over the original serial number I was never sure of the build date and I just assumed it was an early Corona build with a production fault.
I'll change it to 2002.

FWIW, that color is also characteristic of very early Corona, as well as the finish issue.
They installed a brand new paint booth to be able to spray NCL on the acoustics and apparently there were some "teething pains" with it.
So '02's likely correct.
 

Brucebubs

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FWIW, that color is also characteristic of very early Corona, as well as the finish issue.
They installed a brand new paint booth to be able to spray NCL on the acoustics and apparently there were some "teething pains" with it.
So '02's likely correct.

On a warm day the areas on the guitar that have contact with the player's body can turn a foggy, milky white.
It disappears as the guitar cools down.
Cleaners and polish also react poorly with the top coat.
 

SFIV1967

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I'm 99.99% positive that's a Corona label in there which would make it an '02 at the earliest.
I wonder if there is a part of the original serial number on the back of the headstock visible. Also I guess from part of the handwritten number on the lable still visible it would be possible to guess the serial number and Hans could date her exactly. It's a beautiful looking F-412 Brucebubs has!
Ralf
 

Brucebubs

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I wonder if there is a part of the original serial number on the back of the headstock visible. Also I guess from part of the handwritten number on the lable still visible it would be possible to guess the serial number and Hans could date her exactly. It's a beautiful looking F-412 Brucebubs has!
Ralf

That's a nice suggestion Ralf but they did a pretty good job covering up the original serial numbers.

jexxcgch.jpg


EJJvElph.jpg
 

adorshki

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That's a nice suggestion Ralf but they did a pretty good job covering up the original serial numbers.
Yep, too bad, but that's what they were supposed to do...I was kind of doubtful at first myself, but Ralf's one of maybe 2 or 3 guys here whose input I consider as credible as Hans', so I thought maybe he knew something I hadn't seen.
In any case I only recall seeing that finish color on first year and maybe second year ('03, as in Corona D25's which also sported various colors) Corona acoustics.
I can only recall seeing Sunburst and Natural on the later ones, especially 12-ers.
Corona was already being ramped down (models being discontinued but no announcement of the acquisition of Tacoma Guitar Company) by mid '04 and shut down in "late" '04 ( Fender moved GUild Production to Tacoma where production started in '05) so it's really a small window of construction anyway, but I did check this morning and see that the F412 was made during all production years. (And was continued in Tacoma, in 'burst and Natural only, read between those lines).
I'd feel very confident betting your guitar can't be later than a 1st quarter '03 and probably not even that.
I'd even put all my chips on no later than 3rd q. '02.
:friendly_wink:
Oh yeah, here's another "Color corroborator" for that period:
IW6k1X3.jpg

Look familiar?
It's an '02/'03 X-160 with an unusual finish color, more here:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/sh...03-X160-Rockabilly-Unique-Finish-Pro-Upgrades
 
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Brucebubs

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I'm pretty sure Slash from Guns n Roses is holding a similar color red F-412 in this Guild advertisement.

nr2lVjbl.jpg
 

adorshki

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I'm pretty sure Slash from Guns n Roses is holding a similar color red F-412 in this Guild advertisement.

nr2lVjbl.jpg

If that's from around '91, (when G'n'R was a Guild endorser, there are a couple of Guild acoustics appearing in the "Patience" video) it's probably Woodgrain Red, which to me appeared a little darker than the Trans Red, but all of my sightings are from photos here.
Also I've seen the Trans Red (and Blue) most frequently on electrics with maple tops which seems to brighten it up as well, whereas I think the "Woodgrain" Red and Blue were more common on spruce topped acoustics which may also affect how dark they look.
And Ralf mentioned recently that during that '01-'02 period sometimes more than one color name was used for the same paint code even, so it may well be the same color, but absent actual paint codes we can't be certain.
And I come back to being pretty dan sure I haven't seen anything but Naturals and Sunbursts on Corona Acoustics from later than mid-03* but I freely admit my memory ain't what it used to be.
* Oh yeah Richie Havens Signature D40s came in Natural and Black , only.
 
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Brucebubs

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Love all the information, very much appreciated.

A few years back I tried a 12-string set of DR strings.
I was disappointed there was corrosion on the unwound strings.
I sent them an email with pictures.
They responded and arranged a replacement set of strings in newer, improved packaging ... and they commented that they were pleased to see a Guild guitar in my picture.
They are the grand children of Alfred Dronge - founder of Guild guitars.

I'm guessing you guys already knew that but it's a nice story.
 

SFIV1967

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That's a nice suggestion Ralf but they did a pretty good job covering up the original serial numbers.
Oh yes, they burned out the last three digits...So you only see the CUB000xxx. Now I don't know how many F-412 were made, so it's obviously anything between 001 and 999...If they made more than 1000 Hans would at least be able to say the 999 date I think.
The only other way could be to have a look under the new MIRC number label...I wonder if it is a paper or "plastic" tape label they used and what glue it has. Either trying with a strong light to look through the label or if that would not work and if it would be my guitar I would maybe try with a hair dryper to carefully heat that MIRC label and see if the glue softens enough to not damage the original label below and have a look under it...Unless they also scraped the last three digits from the original paper label... But anyway, I wouldn't give this as recommandation it's just a thought.
Ralf
 

adorshki

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Love all the information, very much appreciated.

A few years back I tried a 12-string set of DR strings.
I was disappointed there was corrosion on the unwound strings.
I sent them an email with pictures.
They responded and arranged a replacement set of strings in newer, improved packaging ... and they commented that they were pleased to see a Guild guitar in my picture.
They are the grand children of Alfred Dronge - founder of Guild guitars.

I'm guessing you guys already knew that but it's a nice story.

Yes actually his son Mark founded the company but perhaps his children are still involved.
Nice to hear about the customer service attitude, though.
The only other way could be to have a look under the new MIRC number label...I wonder if it is a paper or "plastic" tape label they used and what glue it has.
We've already seen or heard of several examples where there's paper pulled from the face of a label where an MIRC label obviously was.
Having some experience in selling label stock, that indicates it's probably an acrylic adhesive that just bonds to the paper permanently, and you can't pull it off without pulling off the paper surface it's stuck to. And it just gets stronger and stronger as it ages for the first month or so.
Heat won't have any effect on it, and it probably even has "block-out" agents in the adhesive itself**.
That also fits with MIRC's commitment to permanently eradicate any trace of original s/n just as effectively as burning out the headstock digits.
I still think it can't possibly be later than a mid or even early '03 based on the color but even more relevant is the fact that it's a finish-issue instrument which was primarily found in first-year production due to inexperience in spraying NCL at Corona.
(@Bruce: It's not just the spraying technique that needs to be mastered, but in NCL even formulations vary, and I suspect that perhaps there was some experimentation going on with proportions of "solids", "plasticizers", "solvents", and that they actually had colors that had been compatible with Westerly's NCL formulas but didn't blend well with the Corona formula.
Sheer speculation on my part but could also explain why the "crossover" colors didn't last long on the acoustics.)
In counterpoint, I've always said the finish on my D40 was the best of the 3 for gloss and smoothness, and it is a bit thicker than the 2 Westerlys.
It only finally started to shrink into the grain on the top within the last couple of years where the Westerlys were showing that in less than 10.
Hans dated it as between late '03 to early '04 back in '09, as he was still working on getting his Corona records organized.
Point being, by mid '03 they had their finishing down.

**https://www.mactac.com/Catalog/Applications/Sheets/Cover-Up-Blockout-Labels/MTP1218MOPS-2
That outfit also makes rolls of the stuff on a plastic base that an outfit could print their barcodes on, just like MIRC.
They actually make the new pressure-sensitive US Postage Stamp stock where the same purpose is desired in reverse: you can't remove the stamp to use it again.

:friendly_wink:
 
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