Questions about the Guild F-30

[J.K.]

Junior Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2018
Messages
57
Reaction score
8
Hey all!
First time poster on this forum. I figured it may be better to ask here than TGP or AGF on this one.

I spent a while looking for a new fingerstyle guitar to compliment my Martin 00-15M, and sort of stumbled onto a Guild F-30 for $600, so I took the plunge. (I originally wanted an old M-20 instead of the 00-15M, but they just weren't widely available at the time.)
Anyway, I took it in, got it repaired and set up, and started playing it, and I was almost in tears at how well it suited my needs. It was precisely what I wanted, but I never would've imagined a guitar with this sound could've possibly existed. In spite of the size, the bass has more depth than my main dread, the lower mids are incredibly rich and articulate, and the highs have a slightly less sharp, round quality that I absolutely love. Really, I was impressed at how it eschewed the twangy high end that I've encountered in nearly every acoustic; I always assumed that was just an inevitability of unwound strings, but it has a remarkable, forward clarity without an overabundance of overtones on the b and e strings.


But I digress in the heat of this tonal romance.Here's my actual question:
Were there many variations on the specs of the F-30 models? I dated this to be a 72 (I believe), and it seems contrary to a lot of what I had read about the guitars previously. The nut is 1.75"—perfect for me—and the neck is incredibly comfortable; neither too thin nor too thick. What surprised me most, however, was that the lower bout looked to be about 5" in depth. I thought I read that the depth was always closer to 4.25". I don't know if this accounts for the resonant and powerful bass and more tastefully subdued high end, but it seems like an accidentally perfect fit, especially considering most Martin and Gibson guitars I played with a similar body size tended to be thinner. In spite of the F-30s body dimensions, the depth almost reminds me of a jumbo.

Were there other differences in F-30 specs? I'm curious how other years compare, both in surface size, depth, and nut width/neck profile. It seems that pinpointing specs on some of the older models, especially in terms of variations, is pretty difficult. Did other models have variable body depth like this?

Anyway, thanks for reading/responding.
I've never felt less wanting in terms of acoustic tone and, condition aside (let's call it a "player's guitar"), I can't imagine a better instrument for my needs.
 

AcornHouse

Venerated Member
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
10,212
Reaction score
7,206
Location
Bidwell, OH
Guild Total
21
Yes, some significant differences. The 60s Hoboken ones were short scale, fairly skinny nut. Then the Westerly ones became long scale, with wider nuts. It disappeared from the catalog for a few years, and when it came back, in the late 90s, it was short scale again, with 1-11/16” nut. Then, when Guild moved out of Westerly, it became long scale again.
 

HeyMikey

Enlightened Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2018
Messages
5,415
Reaction score
4,722
Location
MA
Guild Total
9
JK, Congrats on the F30 and welcome. Sounds like you found a nice one! Playability and sound are most important to me.

I’m going to watch this thread with interest. I think my next guitar is going to be some version of a hog F30. I too am still trying to figure out the different permutations and zero in on a certain spec.

Besides the major models were there any one-off or oddball configurations like an Adi top with a 1-3/4 nut?

Other than the physical differences are there any general differences in sound? I would think Sitka standard is generally different than an Adi Aragon or mic f130, but is that so? Can you make generalizations by years or build location?
 
Last edited:

AcornHouse

Venerated Member
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
10,212
Reaction score
7,206
Location
Bidwell, OH
Guild Total
21
Other than the physical differences are there any general differences in sound? I would think Sitka standard is generally different than an Adi Aragon or mic f130, but is that so? Can you make generalizations by years or build location?
I'm hoping to get a video made this weekend comparing my hog and RW F30s.
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,789
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
Hey all! First time poster on this forum.
HI JK, Welcome aboard!
I figured it may be better to ask here than TGP or AGF on this one.
Yes, quite likely so, even if there are some folks here who also post on those forums.
AS you can see your very first response was pretty in depth.
For another thing, one of our founding members happens to be Hans Moust, who wrote "The Guild Guitar Book".
He's probably the world's foremost expert on vintage Guilds, and I only say "probably" because he's pretty modest himself, and don't know what he'd say.

Were there other differences in F-30 specs? I'm curious how other years compare, both in surface size, depth, and nut width/neck profile. It seems that pinpointing specs on some of the older models, especially in terms of variations, is pretty difficult.
Yes, and that's the nature of Guild, their production was low enough that they operated more like a "Custom Shop" than an assembly line and running changes like design tweaks were pretty common.
Couple that with their method of constructing bodies in batches that might then wait around for a while before actually being completed and shipped, and that at least partly explains why guitars from what appear to be the same period have different characteristics.
Here's a perfect example from a recent thread right here, coincidentally of the 12-string version of the F30 known as the F112:
Somehow the bridge on that guitar doesn't look right - wondering if it's original
or a somewhat oversized replacement. Found another '73 F112 for comparison...

snkHd8t.jpg

It's the correct bridge for that particular period. The other one you posted is correct as well, but it's a slightly later one!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl


Did other models have variable body depth like this?
In a word, "yes".
A known factor is that Westerly's body bucks were not all exactly the same depth.
So when the sides were being sanded in prep for the top, variation in body depths did actually occur, but I think the max was only about a possible 1/2" at the extremes of tolerance between the deepest and shallowest bucks.
I don't know if that actually applied to F30 bucks.
I think there's another potential factor at play here.
Photos of you guitar would be nice but those pics also show how the body outline of the F30 became slightly more rounded and "jumbo-like" at the time.
Earlier versions looked like this:
27662U_10__34900.1404928557.jpg

Note the slight difference in the radius of the shoulders and that the waist is ever-so-slightly more "pinched" and it's flatter on the bottom.
So I don't recall if this has been mentioned before, but I'm wondering if the extra depth was introduced to enhance performance of the 12-string variation, as they both used the same body? (Except for top bracing)
Or perhaps the extra depth was part of the outline revision.
I can think of a couple of F30 owners here who might know for sure
Anyway, as I said, there are at least 2 potential reasons for depth variations in F30's specifically, let alone Westerlys in general.
It's a known and endearing character trait, here.
:biggrin-new:

Besides the major models were there any one-off or oddball configurations like an Adi top with a 1-3/4 nut?
Technically, as an F30, no Adi tops until New Hartford.
And New Hartford's F30 Aragon had the Adi ("Red Spruce") top but a 1-11/6 nut. The "F30 Standard" had a 1-3/4 nut but sitka top.
No Adi ever from Guild, that we know of, until Tacoma, and the poor availability of it tends to make it pretty certain that it never got used before that.
In Tacoma they introduced an F30 shaped guitar with 1-3/4 nut and an Adi top, known as the C0-2 (the CO-1 had a cedar top)
Those were part of the "Contemporary Series" which also utilized a bolt-on neck system with an associated bracing system known as "the spider", it was connected directly to the end block and was supposed to yield enhanced tone compared to the traditional construction.
We've had reports from happy owners here, but that series was also given a black eye from lots of examples that Fender allowed to be liquidated when Tacoma closed, that later exhibited severe neck issues.
 
Last edited:

Neal

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
4,856
Reaction score
1,627
Location
Charlottesville, VA
A mild correction, Al...

Red spruce tops were standard on the Tacoma F-30 Aragon, at least starting in 2006.

I owned one in iced tea burst. It was a heck of a guitar.
 

ClydeTower

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2018
Messages
585
Reaction score
7
Location
Montreal
Were there other differences in F-30 specs? I'm curious how other years compare, both in surface size, depth, and nut width/neck profile. It seems that pinpointing specs on some of the older models, especially in terms of variations, is pretty difficult. Did other models have variable body depth like this?

Hi welcome to LTG!

I had the opportunity to pick-up a 1965 Hoboken F-30 about a month ago. Although the guitar shows its age with the usual top crack next to the pickguard and possibly a neck reset in the future, it has a tone that I can only qualify as sublime. Is it the specs of the build or mojo that can only come from a 50+ year old guitar... probably both. This F-30 is remarkably light as a feather and has the classic F-30 concert body shape rather than the mini-jumbo shape that came later. Lower bout is 4.25'' deep and 15.25'' across. The nut is 1 11/16'' but I would say it feels a little narrower than that, but not so much so that's its uncomfortable. The short scale makes the guitar extremely playable. This F-30 is particularly expressive when single note flat-picking or finger picking and is very responsive.

I think what stands out with Hoboken F-30s is the lightness of the build which give it a unique voice and feel, quite different from the more substantial builds that came after that. Anyhow, that's IMHO. As always, YMMV.

Enjoy you're F30 :)
 
Last edited:

HeyMikey

Enlightened Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2018
Messages
5,415
Reaction score
4,722
Location
MA
Guild Total
9
A mild correction, Al...

Red spruce tops were standard on the Tacoma F-30 Aragon, at least starting in 2006.

I owned one in iced tea burst. It was a heck of a guitar.

But all 1-11/16?

What is the difference in sound between the Aragon vs standard Sitka?
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,789
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
A mild correction, Al...

Red spruce tops were standard on the Tacoma F-30 Aragon, at least starting in 2006.

I owned one in iced tea burst. It was a heck of a guitar.
I stand humbly corrected.
I think I conflated the lack of a 1-3/4 nut on the F30 with the CO-2 being the only way to get Adi top with a 1-3/4 nut, but when I was posting that I had truly forgotten Tacoma F30's had Adi tops.

But all 1-11/16?
Yes, see my comment above re CO-2 being the only way to get a 1-3/4 nut with an Adi top on an F30 body.
Here's an old Reverb listing:
https://reverb.com/item/3247442-gui...hestra-guitar-w-all-solid-tonewoods-hard-case
Here's a sound clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpbT4_belfQ

What is the difference in sound between the Aragon vs standard Sitka?
No personal experience but Adi is supposed to be able to achieve more volume before "overdriving" the top, sometimes called "headroom".
It's also supposed to "brighter", and to take longer to open up.
 
Last edited:

bobouz

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
2,228
Reaction score
1,827
The year you cite is right at a key transition period, and the 5" body depth would signal the later version which, to my knowledge, debuted in 1973. That said, it's possible some may have been built towards the end of 1972.

In 1973, the F-30 changed from a Martin-shaped 000 body, to a 15" small jumbo shape. The body depth increased to 5" at it's deepest point. The neck profile was often a shallow 'D' shape, with a somewhat wide feel due to the shallow depth. It was not typically up to a full 1.75" at the nut, but Guild was noted for significant neck variations.

I currently have a '73 F-30R (rosewood version), and a '74 F-40. The neck profiles are almost identical, with the shallow 'D' shape. Back in the day, I also owned mahogany F-30 (which I had purchased new), and likewise, it had a similar neck profile.

You are correct, in that the deep body from this era delivers a very adequate amount of bass, with fine overall balance. Along with the F-40 from the same period, you have what I've always considered to be one of my very favorite Guilds - Enjoy!
 

tommym

Member
Joined
May 5, 2013
Messages
894
Reaction score
315
...... I dated this to be a 72 (I believe), and it seems contrary to a lot of what I had read about the guitars previously. The nut is 1.75"—perfect for me—and the neck is incredibly comfortable; neither too thin nor too thick. What surprised me most, however, was that the lower bout looked to be about 5" in depth.


Barring seeing a photo of your guitar, does it have a serial number on the backside of the headstock or on the label inside? That would help us date the guitar. My 72 and 73 F30 both have the so called "mini jumbo" shaped body vs the Martin style OM shape. Also, both have the deeper body that you describe.

Tommy
 

[J.K.]

Junior Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2018
Messages
57
Reaction score
8
Man, what kinda fool doesn't post pics?
Just snapped a couple with my phone. Hopefully these get uploaded properly.
Guild_zpsmds1btcg.jpg

Guild%20details_zpsp71hgfb8.jpg


Anyway, yeah. It's a bit of a beater, but luckily I played with a couple good luthiers (one who still works at Collings), and they're always pretty good to me.
I don't mind the rashes and nicks, but there was one crack close to the kerfing that was tricky to repair.
I was wrong about the nut width, but I guess it's not something I notice as someone who primarily plays electric guitars.
The depth is just a hair shy of 5", though, and it's a full scale guitar, which I really appreciate considering I do a lot of open tunings with acoustic guitars, and shorter scale necks can get a bit flubby in tunings with a low C.
The body shape is more "jumbo" than "orchestra" style. I assume that and the depth work well together to give it that brilliant bass.
I really wanted a Hoboken model for whatever reason, but the price was right on this, so I took the chance. All things considered, I feel like all of my bad luck has been karmically negated by this purchase.
Like I said, what impresses me most is the boldness of the unwound strings; they have much more of a resonant woody sound than any other guitars I've played, and the overtones never get into that twangy territory that I always end up EQing out. It's curious, too, because it doesn't sound "muted" at all, and the dynamic response has the right sensitivity that I can imagine it taking the place of my mahogany Martin for a lot of recording scenarios, especially because the fullness makes it easier to mix with (plus no boomy lows like my dreads).
Once I get my other mic back, I'll try and record a couple licks with it, for posterity sake or whatever.
 
  • Like
Reactions: F30

tommym

Member
Joined
May 5, 2013
Messages
894
Reaction score
315
.....The body shape is more "jumbo" than "orchestra" style....

Yeah, that's what some of us over here refer to as the "mini-jumbo" body. This "mini-jumbo" body was also used on the Guild F112 12-string guitars.


Tommy
 

[J.K.]

Junior Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2018
Messages
57
Reaction score
8
I forgot to note that the SN is 61979, so I'm guessing it's pretty early in the 72 run.
 

Bonneville88

Senior Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
2,695
Reaction score
1,255
Location
St. Louis, MO
Guild Total
40
Congrats on a cool guitar and sweet score for $600, even if it does need a neck reset.
I have two later F30 models and one with the
same mini-jumbo body as yours... a Hoboken-label F30 is on my bucket list,
for the reasons Clyde mentioned :love-struck:
 
Last edited:

bobouz

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
2,228
Reaction score
1,827
I forgot to note that the SN is 61979, so I'm guessing it's pretty early in the 72 run.
Interesting. I've seen conflicting info re the start date of the mini-jumbo F-30 body-shape, but this would certainly appear to confirm a 1972 release date. The rosewood version is confirmed as being released in '73. Thanks for posting!
 

jeffcoop

Senior Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
1,845
Reaction score
731
Hi welcome to LTG!

I had the opportunity to pick-up a 1965 Hoboken F-30 about a month ago. Although the guitar shows its age with the usual top crack next to the pickguard and possibly a neck reset in the future, it has a tone that I can only qualify as sublime. Is it the specs of the build or mojo that can only come from a 50+ year old guitar... probably both. This F-30 is remarkably light as a feather and has the classic F-30 concert body shape rather than the mini-jumbo shape that came later. Lower bout is 4.25'' deep and 15.25'' across. The nut is 1 11/16'' but I would say it feels a little narrower than that, but not so much so that's its uncomfortable. The short scale makes the guitar extremely playable. This F-30 is particularly expressive when single note flat-picking or finger picking and is very responsive.

I think what stands out with Hoboken F-30s is the lightness of the build which give it a unique voice and feel, quite different from the more substantial builds that came after that. Anyhow, that's IMHO. As always, YMMV.

Enjoy you're F30 :)

MMDNV (my mileage does not vary)--sounds like a description of my '64 F30.
 

HeyMikey

Enlightened Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2018
Messages
5,415
Reaction score
4,722
Location
MA
Guild Total
9
Moved from other thread...


I’m looking into hog backed F30s with a 1-3/4 nut. Not interested in the F30R or 1-11/16 Aragon at this point. My questions center on “general” differences in 1) sound, 2) playability and 3) quality/consistency from the different time periods or factories.

For example, did the dimensions, bracing, necks, wood sub species or other key materials change over the years that make a noticeable difference?

Are there generally recognized periods or factories to seek out or be wary of?
 

AcornHouse

Venerated Member
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
10,212
Reaction score
7,206
Location
Bidwell, OH
Guild Total
21
If you want the 1-3/4" nut, you don't have any choices. NH Standard. While there may be some Westerlys with that wide a nut, it wasn't spec., so, just an aberration, AFAIK. And all the NHs will be the same.
 

HeyMikey

Enlightened Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2018
Messages
5,415
Reaction score
4,722
Location
MA
Guild Total
9
Ok so all NH Standards, (not the Traditionals?) and maybe some random Westerly will have a 1-3/4 nut. That limits things bit. Thanks.
 
Top