Starfire Bass, mahogany or maple?

adorshki

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However, unlike some of the birch ply I've bought in recent years for woodworking projects, all 4 plies of the SF top are of equal thickness. The top and bottom plies of the of the birch were pretty much paper-thin (about like mahogany "luan" ply).

That "wood" make sense if it was for say, furniture/cabinetry.
That's when it becomes "veneer" and in fact Hans explained once that Guild actually obtained its sheets for laminated backs from a furniture veneer maker.
And because the sheets were literally sliced in succession from a parent block, any 2 consecutive sheets had basically identical grain patterns, allowing the Westerly builders to orient the inside and outside veneers to appear like a solid board.
We've actually had more than one member over the years think their laminated backs were solid because of that practice.
OK, that's how it worked for flat-top backs. I don't recall if any mention was ever made about actual number of layers or thicknesses in the case of those backs.
It's easy to hypothesize that in the case of hollow-body bass tops a different set of dynamics could be preferable and explains multiple layers of apparently identical wood and layer thickness.
After all the top still is the primary sound-wave producing element even if feedback attenuation is desired.
SO maybe multiple equal thickness layers work better for the desired goal.
 

Minnesota Flats

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BTW: (also based on personal,"F-hole edge" observation) the Newark Street (MIK) mahogany SF-IIs have thinner (than 1990s [MIA]), 2-ply tops.
 

Nuuska

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. . . The grain of the inner layer is typically oriented at either 90 or 180 degrees to the outside layers, this also enhances strength . . .:friendly_wink:

Hello

90 degrees gives maximum stiffness - but 180 ??? - if the grain is like a fan and you glue them together one "upside-down" - then yes.
Other angles allow easier bending in one direction - just like 3-ply bends easier than 7-ply
 

fronobulax

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i have a maple and a mahogany bass. The maple has Bartolini pickups that were replacements specially for the starfires before anything like the Hammon Darkstar pickups were available. The mahogany one that I just got has a Novak bs-ds pickup which sounds great. But comparing maple to mahogany with the different pickups in each one won’t tell me much. I’m happy that each one sounds great but different.

I've played a maple SF I once and there were enough differences between it and "what I am used to" that I don't know what differences to attribute to maple and what to other factors. But mgod has owned and played many vintage Starfires and he has done "apples to apples" comparisons and I am inclined to accept his opinion as being more factually based than mine. His opinion is that there is a noticeable difference. He's recovering from surgery but if he sees this maybe he will chime in and correct my memory :)
 

fronobulax

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I know that the two green Starfires that I've seen (including mine) were both maple. My '67 SFI (living with Fixit now) was mahogany, and it had a darker sound than Greenie, but that was mostly from the single neck pickup placement I think. Never had a maple and mahogany SFII to A/B at the same time, so I'll probably never be sure.

Duh. In Ancient Times there was a debate on LTG over the green color of pre-1971 Starfire basses. I insisted that the color I remembered from my youth was brighter than the color we see today and suggested some kind of extreme darkening had occurred. Hans noted that the green finish was used on both maple and mahogany basses and my memory could be reconciled with the facts if I remembered a green maple bass and was comparing my memory to a mahogany bass decades later.
 

lungimsam

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I am waiting for an NS all maple body/neck SF.
I wonder what a carbon fibre SF would sound like.
I see some acoustics are cf these days. No more truss adjustments necessary.
 

Minnesota Flats

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"I wonder what a carbon fibre SF would sound like."

Sound aside, I think it might cause the model to lose a bit of its "retro" cache.

:wink:
 

mellowgerman

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The Guild CARBONFIRE bass!!! Featuring 3 Bisonic pickups, quadraphonic piezo bridge setup with individual transducers seated underneath each titanium string saddle, master volume, and separate volume and tone controls for each pickup!!! (that's right, 15 knobs!)

:D

but in all seriousness, I would be interested in hearing the difference in tone-woods vs. carbon-fibre!
 

adorshki

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The Guild CARBONFIRE bass!!! Featuring 3 Bisonic pickups, quadraphonic piezo bridge setup with individual transducers seated underneath each titanium string saddle, master volume, and separate volume and tone controls for each pickup!!! (that's right, 15 knobs!)

:D

but in all seriousness, I would be interested in hearing the difference in tone-woods vs. carbon-fibre!

When I was lad in "middle school" one of my best buddies was a budding young mad scientist who used to do stuff like build his own carbon arc lamp in his garage:

F91F7ZHH9IEY95RYPC.LARGE.jpg


So I say "Carbonfire" 's a great name.
And just enough knobs to go head-to-head with Big Brown to retain that retro cache:
209081.jpg


The only remaining detail is to figure out a way to distress the carbon fiber for that road-worn look and sound.
 

Minnesota Flats

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Can't say if these measurements are typical, but, if anyone cares...

Top thickness @ F-hole:

1998 (MIA) Maple SF-II = 5.3mm (4-ply?)

2016 Mahogany (Newark Street MIK) SF-II = 3.6mm (2-ply?)

(as measured with a digital caliper)
 

adorshki

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Can't say if these measurements are typical, but, if anyone cares...

Top thickness @ F-hole:

1998 (MIA) Maple SF-II = 5.3mm (4-ply?)

2016 Mahogany (Newark Street MIK) SF-II = 3.6mm (2-ply?)

(as measured with a digital caliper)

What I was really curious about is if there was a change in top construction between the original SF basses and the MIA re-issues.
 
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fronobulax

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What I was really curious about I if there was a change in top construction between the original SF basses and the MIA re-issues.

Well I have one of each but I need to invest in motivation and a dental mirror or an inspection scope :)
 

adorshki

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Well I have one of each but I need to invest in motivation and a dental mirror or an inspection scope :)

I'm not seeing a '90's re-issue (MI A) SF bass in your sig?

I'll assume Minnesota's observation covered all years of Newark street top construction.
 

fronobulax

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I'm not seeing a '90's re-issue (MI A) SF bass in your sig?

I'll assume Minnesota's observation covered all years of Newark street top construction.

You are right. I missed the "MIA". Good thing I was not motivated.
 

adorshki

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You are right. I missed the "MIA". Good thing I was not motivated.

Ahhhh...but it just hit me:
You do have a '67 to compare to Minnesota's '98.....and hopefully all ya gotta do is put a magnifying glass close to the F-hole....and maybe slap a caliper on there...if you can get the cat outta the way.
:biggrin-new:
 
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