1959 Guild Aristocrat inlays

Mickzep

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Can anyone tell me what material was used for the block inlays on 1959 aristocrats?

Am I right in thinking cellulose nitrate?
 

kakerlak

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Whatever it was, I've seen some shrink and curl up like pepperonis on a pizza while others seem to hold up well enough. I would think celluloid, though.
 

adorshki

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Whatever it was, I've seen some shrink and curl up like pepperonis on a pizza while others seem to hold up well enough.
I read here recently that celluloid deteriorates more quickly under certain conditions, I think humidity was mentioned as a big accelerator. Could explain the variations.
I would think celluloid, though.
Yes, very high probability of celluloid, if they weren't actual MOP laid into the neck by Guild or a later owner.
 

Mickzep

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So did guild install MOP inlays on some 50's aristocrats? Cheers
 

Mickzep

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Some of my inlays have indeed shrunk and I was wondering what would be the best way to retain my 59's value...fill in around existing shrunken inlays or replace them with period correct inlays??
 

adorshki

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So did guild install MOP inlays on some 50's aristocrats? Cheers
I have no idea, but Hans probably would.
It's just that basically if something was possible it seems like they did it at least once.
I can't tell you how many times I've been surprised by an oddball, confirmed by him as factory original, shown here over the years.
That was the real reason for my comment, I was just trying to keep it short at the time.

Some of my inlays have indeed shrunk and I was wondering what would be the best way to retain my 59's value...fill in around existing shrunken inlays or replace them with period correct inlays??

That's a tough call, for me, anyway.
I guess it'd depend partly on other condition issues.
If it's already a "player" with a few dings and other non-original stuff and you want to continue using it then I'd vote "replace".
If it's in VVVG or even better condition and you don't know if you intend to "keep it forever" then I'd probably leave the originals in there for the next owner to make a decision about.
For "collectibility", original is virtually always better even if deteriorated.
It means at least it hasn't been mucked up by misguided or poor attempts at restoration.
:friendly_wink:
 
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kakerlak

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Some of my inlays have indeed shrunk and I was wondering what would be the best way to retain my 59's value...fill in around existing shrunken inlays or replace them with period correct inlays??

I'd either ignore it, or get the gaps filled with rosewood dust + superglue. I wouldn't replace good-looking vintage celluloid inlays if they're still staying flat and haven't rotted, etc.
 

Neal

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I have a '53 X-150 prototype that has a bit of shrinkage in some of the rectangular fret marker inlays, fortunately way up the neck where I do not often venture. I have chosen to leave them alone.

OTOH, I have a '54 X-200 that has inlays that look perfect. Go figure.
 

adorshki

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I have a '53 X-150 prototype that has a bit of shrinkage in some of the rectangular fret marker inlays, fortunately way up the neck where I do not often venture. I have chosen to leave them alone.

OTOH, I have a '54 X-200 that has inlays that look perfect. Go figure.

Another thing I just remembered is that different formulations of NC plastic age differently, it's not a universal "only one way to make it" formula.
 

hansmoust

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Some of my inlays have indeed shrunk and I was wondering what would be the best way to retain my 59's value...fill in around existing shrunken inlays or replace them with period correct inlays??

I'd either ignore it, or get the gaps filled with rosewood dust + superglue. I wouldn't replace good-looking vintage celluloid inlays if they're still staying flat and haven't rotted, etc.


I have a '53 X-150 prototype that has a bit of shrinkage in some of the rectangular fret marker inlays, fortunately way up the neck where I do not often venture. I have chosen to leave them alone. OTOH, I have a '54 X-200 that has inlays that look perfect. Go figure.

Hello folks,

Being a repairman myself I've found out that shrinking inlays on M-75s (and other Guild models) are usually not a big problem unless we get to the '59 period. At that time they used a material that seems to behave rather badly over time and consequently I had to remove quite a few of them because the inlays 'curled' up in a way that actually prevented you from fretting a string properly in the positions where the blocks were located .

Here's an M-75 from that period that I actually have in the workshop right now:

M75_inlays1.jpg


Here's another sample of a slightly later M-75 with inlays that don't have that problem:

M75_inlays2.jpg


I have the original inlays from that slightly later period in stock. They already have that nice 'vintage' look, but unfortunately you need to sand them down to get a level playing surface and they will become a little more 'white-ish' looking. Only time will give 'm that 'original' look.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

eltuce

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Being a bit of an Aristocrat junkie, so far my '58 is the only one that's had that issue. My '60 and '62 have been fine. Maybe it has to do with how they were stored over the years? The '58 definitely resembles the first photo Hans posted. Thankfully, it hasn't been an issue playing wise. I did have to reglue the first inlay recently.
 

Mickzep

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Thanks Hans.

Would leaving the inlays alone devalue the instrument more than replacing them?

Are the inlays you have in stock pre cut?
 

hansmoust

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Would leaving the inlays alone devalue the instrument more than replacing them?

It depends on who you're asking and if the inlays would interfere with the playability of the instrument.

I'm a repairman as well as a historian and I'm always balancing between the two, but if the choice is between an instrument being original or being unplayable, I don't have to think long.

Are the inlays you have in stock pre cut?

Yes, they are pre-cut. Here's a photo that shows the inlays as I found them when the Westerly plant closed .........

M75_inlays3.jpg


..... still in the original packaging and labeled as a product originating in Western Germany.

Keep in mind that they are a full 1/8" thick, so they need to be trimmed down after being installed, to conform to the fingerboard radius.

Because of that I would recommend this particular restoration being performed in combination with a complete re-fret, just to make things easier!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 
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My 1959 Capri had that problem when I bought it in Nashville 14 years ago. It bothered me a bit but didn't really interfere with fretting so I just left it. I moved to Arizona five years ago and had never taken the guitar out of its' case until a couple of months ago. Amazingly, the dry air has straightened out the block inlays although some have shrunk on one side. I believe that's a fairly straightforward repair by grinding up an old piece of rosewood and dripping it into the small gap then adding glue.

Any suggestions on what glue to use?
 
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