What Smaller Guilds To Consider

LAP57

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I posted earlier that I was looking for something smaller then my JF4-nt because of a shoulder issue. My question then was for advice for buying sight unseen on line. Now I am asking what guitars might be worth considering. Here is my current thinking based on my limited knowledge. My current good acoustic guitars are my JF4-nt and a Simon & Patrick Parlor guitar. Also I have a Sigma DM 2 that is a beater that is starting to show its age. But it is dreadnought size so I have a point of reference to how that size compares to my Jumbo.

My jumbo and parlor are both mahogany back and sides with spruce tops. The parlor guitar is a 12 fret guitar about the size of a Martin 0 guitar. Needless to say there is a noticeable difference when switching the two.

I am looking to put something between the two size wise and maybe with rosewood or maple body for a slightly different sound. The guitar needs to sound good acoustically and need need to be plugged in to sound good. I am leaning towards a cut away because I am playing DADGAD and often capoed at the 7th fret and the cutaway could help here. That being said I have noted that many DADGAD players use standard guitars. I have just sent an email to my teacher about this as I have never seen him use a cut away.

Rightly or wrongly I have a bias to Westerly and New Hartford guitars because I live in Connecticut and these are local built from my point of view.

I originally started looking at D50ce's. Full dreadnought sound but not a huge difference in size from my jumbo. I have had the F30 suggested to me and I am going to check that out as they have one at a nearby GC. What other models made in Westerly or New Hartford might fit this bill?
 

rwmct

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I love my F-30 Std.

I think these are wonderful guitars. Very plain in terms of bling, but built with the care and material of more expensive guitars.
 

geoguy

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F30RCE Standard?

Rosewood, check.

Cutaway, check.

New Hartford, check.

It also has a built-in pickup, for what that's worth.

 

walrus

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FYI - There's an F-30RCE for sale at the Guitar Center in Southington, CT.

walrus
 

JohnW63

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I got an F47 because it had a bit deeper tones then the F-30. That may not be an issue if you use DADGAD. That deepens every guitar's tone.
 

richardp69

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I'm not personally in love with most smaller bodied guitars (yes, I know many will hate me for that) but the F 20 is really a pretty nice guitar with a fairly rich big sound. That would get my vote.
 

Rayk

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The F30’s would be the middle ground . I’m a lover of the triple O guitars but there’s a older F 30 that I would call a small jumbo but the gang would have to remind me and tell what years they were lol
I small jumbo is on my list :)
 

adorshki

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I originally started looking at D50ce's. Full dreadnought sound but not a huge difference in size from my jumbo. I have had the F30 suggested to me and I am going to check that out as they have one at a nearby GC. What other models made in Westerly or New Hartford might fit this bill?

Like JohnW63 said, check F47's which were commonly made as F47ce and also in all 3 major tonewoods
16" lower bout compared to the 17" bout of the JF4.
Best of both worlds.
:friendly_wink:
(PS there's no other size between F30 and F40/47 but F30's did go to a little over 15" to 15-1/4" lower bout for a while, early '70's IIRC)
And you should put Tacoma on your list of acceptable sources, and they offered both those models too.
 
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LAP57

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I ran into this today on Reverb: https://reverb.com/item/6563931-guild-spruce-rosewood-6-string-cutaway-fishman-natural

Looks to be in very good condition. No paper sticker inside and Prototype stamped on the back of the head stock. It has Fishman electronics which I don't think were the electronics used when these went into production.

What would the concerns be with "Prototype"? What type of pickup would this have used? The guitar can be returned so there is a chance to try it out.

Haven't contacted the seller yet while I wait for some comments on this guitar.

Thanks.
 

geoguy

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I believe the seller is actually an LTG member with the screen name of "alpep". He should be able to give you a good in-hand description of that guitar.

And I think there was another thread re: this guitar in the past? Possibly in the "ebay/craigslist" section.

Note that it is returnable if it isn't as described . . . that implies no returns if you simply don't like it.
 

adorshki

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I ran into this today on Reverb: https://reverb.com/item/6563931-guild-spruce-rosewood-6-string-cutaway-fishman-natural

Looks to be in very good condition. No paper sticker inside and Prototype stamped on the back of the head stock. It has Fishman electronics which I don't think were the electronics used when these went into production.

What would the concerns be with "Prototype"?
Concerns? Almost impossible to say.
Extremely tough to put a value on a one-off.
No way to verify if it was constructed "to last" or only to be evaluated for design: several prototypes of a given idea can be built for different purposes.
Could be very problematic when trying to sell, as well as the difficulty of proving provenance.
BUT: I think it's "legitimate".
We've seen several NH prototypes in the last couple of years, some less refined than others.
They even used leftover Tacoma parts on some of those very early NH prototypes, just experimenting around with designs and build techniques.
See this thread for some comparison of early ideas compared to the one you're asking about, and other background about NH prototypes:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/sh...t-prototype-quot&highlight=hartford+prototype
A link to a search return for "New Hartford prototype":
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/sh...t-prototype-quot&highlight=hartford+prototype
The one you're asking about actually looks pretty refined, it may well be a "first item" done with intended production methods and tooling, and intended for evaluation for final "go ahead".
Going by bridge it looks like it might be an F30Rce, but I think you're right I don't think they were using Fishman anymore for those.
What type of pickup would this have used?
At least some versions came with Dtar with soundhole controls, don't recall if they all did..
The guitar can be returned so there is a chance to try it out.
The condition I see is "only if it's not as described", so I'd verify verify that.
It would also be interesting to confirm what the finish and nut width are, as the production "Ce's" were only built on the "F30 Standard" platform which meant (originally) satin neck, 1-11/16 nut, and sitka top.
That one looks like the whole body is satin, maybe that's what made it a prototype?
 

Br1ck

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When I was searching for a parlor, I came to some firm conclusions, like much in life, money mitigated problems. I played every parlor I could find, true 0 sized guitars. Nothing I played until I reached Eastman level sounded anything other than horrible. Eastman was pretty good, likewise Larrivee. Now Martin 0s from the twenties were glorious, and the later 0 16NY was very good too. Then I played a Collings and a SCGC which were incredible little guitars, but were pushing 5K. The conclusion was drawn that the smaller the guitar, the more excellent it had to be to sound really good. I've formed this opinion with ukes and mandolins too. They just need to be better than larger body instruments. No room for error. 000 sized guitars can be made to sound reasonably good in a massed produced environment built with cost in mind. 00 not so much.

Throw in a cutaway and it complicates matters. Now I ended up buying a rosewood/spruce Pono. Quite good but nowhere near SCGC, but a quarter the cost.
 

fronobulax

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Lost Art Vintage is Al P. My limited experience with him is that he falls into the "good people" category. Al had some very good connections with the NH factory (because of his Ovation/Adamas sales) and I have no reason to question what he says about the origin.

Looks to be in very good condition. No paper sticker inside and Prototype stamped on the back of the head stock. It has Fishman electronics which I don't think were the electronics used when these went into production.

What would the concerns be with "Prototype"? What type of pickup would this have used?

New Hartford prototypes were stamped and did not get paper labels and serial numbers. Not all prototypes led to production models so using Fishman electronics may have been a proof of concept based upon something that was just lying around. Or this guitar may be the experiment that made people decide to use something besides Fishman. I don't think we are going to know. You have to look at each prototype on a case by case basis, but in general NH Prototypes were playable and finished (otherwise they went to the bandsaw).
 

GuildFS4612CE

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I've met Al...if I remember correctly he had quite a few Guilds including prototypes after New Hartford closed...recommend if you're interested in the guitar that you just call him up and ask him any questions...he has a good reputation.
 

LAP57

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I took a look at the Guild F-30rce at the Guitar Center near me. Overall it is in good condition. Back, sides and neck look good. The front has two small dings and a crack that runs from the saddle to the bottom of the end of the guitar. They were originally asking $990 for this and it has recently dropped to $850. I looked at this guitar about a month ago and the crack immediately turned me off. After looking around at used guitars and seeing the cracked guitars at the luthiers shop I am no longer writing this off. If everything else is good on this guitar and knowing that I have a return period during which I will have my luthier check it over, does this price sound reasonable? Given that they just did their 90 day price drop is there any chance of talking them down further?

I played the guitar and it sounded good to me. I had someone else play it and it sounded good to me. My luthier is not concerned about fixing the crack. Given that the F-30rce is not common I am tempted to buy it. But then again something else will come along eventually.

edit: If it affects value it is a tobacco sunburst.
 
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walrus

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LAP, I too am eyeing small bodied guitars - I also saw that guitar on-line. I like it! Since you held it in your hand, you know about the crack better than I, so depending on your assessment of the crack, that might be a very good price. And GC's return policy makes it even easier to take a chance.

walrus
 

geoguy

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One of my favorite guitars has multiple repaired soundboard cracks. Don't let one crack put you off, if you otherwise like that instrument. :rugby:

IMO the price takes that crack into account. But it can't hurt to offer a bit less and see if they bite!
 

LAP57

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I am counting on the return policy to have time to play it more and have my luthier go over it.
 

Rayk

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I am counting on the return policy to have time to play it more and have my luthier go over it.

For me it’s about price then like ability. I don’t like cracks but acknowledging it is part of the game but only in it happening to guitars I own ( of coarse vintage guitars are fair game it’s a mojo thing ) . Buying a guitar cracked for what I call not that great of a price is a deal breaker .

Guitar center can negotiate in used 90 days after original listing . I know you got them to reduce the price all ready but it’s the unknowns that could pop up later that concerns me , I start thinking of upping the deal game .

Many members here have dissuaded me from such purchases but just make sure you really love it to keep it and acknowledge that future sales will be reflective of its condition and repair history.

Best of luck .
 
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beecee

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I had pictures sent a few weeks back

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