Arcos Refurbs

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Greetings!

This is my first post after hanging about for a few months, so please bear with me. I returned to the guitar a year ago after a forty year hiatus, and am now ready for my first Guild. My return came via electrics, and now am ready to add a decent acoustic six-string to the herd. I love the big bold sound of Guilds, and wanted one back in the day, but couldn't afford one.

I am considering two guitars in my price range, an F-5ce and an AO-5ce. Neither is available to me to examine or play, but I have had good success with the two electrics I purchased sight unseen; a G&L and a D'Angelico. The vendor on the AO-5ce confirmed it is one of the "refurbished" Arcos models, and I am not sure if this should be a disqualifier.

Have any of you had issues with a refurbished Arcos? Which of the two would you select?

Thanks in advance.

Tom
 

adorshki

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Hi Slobiker, welcome aboard!
Full disclosure: I'm a Made in USA Guild loyalist.
My bet is that the F5ce will be a better long-term buy than the Arcos.
While I don't want to steal another member's thunder, our member Pittpastor recently acquired one of the Arcos refurbs and it turned out not to be the best investment after needed repairs were performed.
See these threads:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/sh...-about-the-Guild-Arcos-Series&highlight=arcos
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/sh...-Cutaway-Natural-Finish-(MIM)&highlight=arcos
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/sh...-and-better-than-I-remembered&highlight=arcos

We do tend to "veer" off subject a lot around here, so be patient when reading, but on the other hand you'll probably also pick up a lot of background knowledge about what you're looking at and what to look for.
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fronobulax

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Welcome. Factory of origin is very important to a lot of people here and until you start taking price differences I think everyone will tell you to go for the F5CE. If you say the Arcos is (for example) $300 less and comes with a case which the F5CE lacks, you might start getting different answers.

There is a lot of good advice about buying used acoustics sight unseen. Maybe someone else will link to it or, better yet, turn it into a FAQ that I will gladly make sticky. The big concern is whether a neck reset is needed or in the near future. When the answer is yes you are going to need $300-$600 before you have a totally playable guitar. In some cases that is reason enough to wait for the next one.

If you are not afraid of someone snatching it out from under you, posting a link to a FS listing will get you a lot of good comments about a specific guitar.
 

PittPastor

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I am considering two guitars in my price range, an F-5ce and an AO-5ce. Neither is available to me to examine or play, but I have had good success with the two electrics I purchased sight unseen; a G&L and a D'Angelico. The vendor on the AO-5ce confirmed it is one of the "refurbished" Arcos models, and I am not sure if this should be a disqualifier.

Tom,

I have an Archos that was refurbished. It came to me in the original Fender/Guild box, and was virtually untouched. Practically brand new. There were a bunch of these left over from the Fender days that never made it to a dealer's showroom.

I had some issues with it that I had repaired by a very good Luthier (Stuart Day Guitars) The issue seems to show up in a lot of these guitars that I have seen on Reverb and EBay. It looks like the glue they used on their inner bracing fails, and it leaves the top vulnerable to splitting. So, in addition to fixing the split, Stuart also replaced the bracing. My Archos is now stable.

I would describe the Archos as almost Taylor-like in its sound, which you either like or you don't. It doesn't have the same sound as my Vintage D40C, but it is a good, balanced sound. It is a brighter sound than my Vintage Guild has. I fingerpick mostly, and it sounds good as a fingerpicker. It also has onboard electronics which is a plus if you ever want to plug it in somewhere. It has an onboard tuner that I find pretty useless, but I feel that that way about any onboard tuner I have ever seen. I'd rather use a Snark than any of them, and every guitar I own has a Snark in the case. If I don't have a snark for some reason, I'd still rather use the Guitar Tuna app on my phone than any onboard tuner I have seen. YMMV.

In addition to the split that Stuart fixed, he also smoothed the frets (the end of them were really sharp -- which only matters if your playing style caused you to slide up or down the fret) and he lowered the action a bit. It plays well now.

However, it is a 1 3/4" nut, which many people love, but which unfortunately hurts my hand to play. So, I intend to sell my Archos. If you are interested PM me and tell me what your budget is. I would love to see it go to someone who wants to play it, and has a fondness for Guild, which is the only reason I haven't put it up on eBay or Reverb yet.

Aside from that, I will answer any questions about the Archos style that I can. Good luck!
 

dougdnh

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I bought an Arcos AO-5ce sight unseen off Craigslist about 6 months ago. It is a refurb with the taped over serial number. The guitar is absolutely perfect, and is now my go to everyday accoustic. I love the sightly wider neck, and yes it is a somewhat bright sounding guitar. The workmanship on it is great - realize the AO-5ce is a step up from the more common AO-3ce since it has a gloss finish and rosewood sides and back.
 

PittPastor

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I bought an Arcos AO-5ce sight unseen off Craigslist about 6 months ago. It is a refurb with the taped over serial number. The guitar is absolutely perfect, and is now my go to everyday accoustic. I love the sightly wider neck, and yes it is a somewhat bright sounding guitar. The workmanship on it is great - realize the AO-5ce is a step up from the more common AO-3ce since it has a gloss finish and rosewood sides and back.

Yes. Good point. I should have mentioned mine was the 3CE, and the issues i’ve Seen online were all 3C as well.
 
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Thanks for all the replies. i am still thinking about my options, and appreciate the knowledge from this fine group.

Had a chance to try a couple 70's vintage all mahogany Guilds at a nearby GC, but they didn't light my fire. Sounded a bit muddy to me, compared to a couple "M" brand guitars and an Epi Masterbilt that was there. I still love the sound of other Guilds I've played in the past, so holding out hope for something with a good balance across the frequencies. The "T" brand I played was way too bright for me.

Once I know which way to go, I will post my new acquisition.

Thanks again.

TC
 

adorshki

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Thanks for all the replies. i am still thinking about my options, and appreciate the knowledge from this fine group.

Had a chance to try a couple 70's vintage all mahogany Guilds at a nearby GC, but they didn't light my fire. Sounded a bit muddy to me, compared to a couple "M" brand guitars and an Epi Masterbilt that was there. I still love the sound of other Guilds I've played in the past, so holding out hope for something with a good balance across the frequencies. The "T" brand I played was way too bright for me.
Old dead strings can do that, especially if they were archbacks, (I'm assuming you tried D25's that came first with flatbacks and then with archbacks for a couple of years before spruce tops were phased in, in about '74).
Some of the early spruce topped versions are mistakenly ID'd as mahogany tops due to the stain and the "D25M" model number.
It's aggravated by the fact that some of those really do have 'hog tops. Ya gotta check the grain carefully to be sure.
So if all 'hog really doesn't do it for you, suggest trying out D40's (always spruce-topped flatback 'hog body) or even G37's/D30's (always spruce-topped arched maple backs)
NExt step up the ladder for dreadnoughts is D50. always spruce-topped flat-back rosewood.
Re "Good balance across frequencies" : Richie Havens once said he loved Guilds because the string-to-string volume balance was so good, even with his open tunings. It's kind of a definitive part of the "Guild" sound.
He preferred D40's.
Arched back D25's (the vast majority of production) can muddy up if pushed too hard, suspect that's why Richie preferred flat backs in dreads, since he also had an F50.
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A decision at last!

In my search, I hit my local GC and tried about eight different guitars, including two more Guilds. They had a D4-NT from 1996 that looked brand new. Comparing it to guitars that were twice the price, it easily matched or exceeded both sound and playability. Of course, I wanted to try a few more before pulling the trigger.

Fortunately, I had the presence of mind to put it on layaway, just to be sure not to lose it. After two more shops and another hour at GC today playing a few more, I took out my cash and brought it home.

There will be a new NGD thread coming soon with pictures, just to share in my super find. Oh, by the way, it cost me $400, including the OHSC and all the tags and stuff too! My lucky day.

Thanks for the posts.

TC
 

PittPastor

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A decision at last!

In my search, I hit my local GC and tried about eight different guitars, including two more Guilds. They had a D4-NT from 1996 that looked brand new. Comparing it to guitars that were twice the price, it easily matched or exceeded both sound and playability. Of course, I wanted to try a few more before pulling the trigger.

Fortunately, I had the presence of mind to put it on layaway, just to be sure not to lose it. After two more shops and another hour at GC today playing a few more, I took out my cash and brought it home.

There will be a new NGD thread coming soon with pictures, just to share in my super find. Oh, by the way, it cost me $400, including the OHSC and all the tags and stuff too! My lucky day.

Wow! Nice score. What part of the country are you from?
 
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PittPastor,

I am in the Easton area, on the other side of the state from you. I will update my guitar list now that I have my Guild.

Thanks

TC
 

gjmalcyon

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They had a D4-NT from 1996 that looked brand new. Comparing it to guitars that were twice the price, it easily matched or exceeded both sound and playability.

I bought one for the wife as a Christmas present a few years ago, and nearly kept it for myself it sounded so good. We often refer to those as the "gateway drug" to VGGCD (vintage Guild guitar collecting disease).

Congrats!
They can be extraordinary values when compared to what else is out there (new and used) at their price points.
 
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adorshki

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Wow! Nice score.

Yeah, ditto that!
Great price!
BTW, if you didn't already know, D4's were basically D25's with anything that could be stripped off, bling wise, "thrown overboard".
Ya can't get more stripped down and basic and still get Guild sound.
And '96 was a great year, judging by my D25.
Oh yes, you can verify year by looking at the heelblock:
A date'll be stamped on a beveled edge of it, easy to miss unless you know you're looking for it.
That's actually when the basic body was completed, final finishing ready for shipment was anywhere from a couple of weeks to a couple of months later, depending on how popular a model was.
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beecee

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I was going to recommend that very guitar, but I've been away.

I sold my D-4 a few years back and missed it horribly until I played my NH D-40.

Still, at some of the pricing I've seen on D-4's I still think about grabbing one...they can be that good!!!

Sounds like ya got a good 'un. All substance over style

Good luck with it.
 
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