NGD: '62 Starfire III + Questions

rbrcbr

Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2018
Messages
126
Reaction score
108
Location
Brooklyn, New York
Guild Total
2
Hey everyone! New to the forum here, first post, but I've lurked a bit here and there recently due to my growing obsession with vintage Guilds. That obsession culminated recently and as of last Friday, I am the proud owner of a 1962 Starfire III! One owner, non original case (because the original was too beat up it was replaced at some point), and it came with a vintage strap! It is also my first real vintage guitar, so that is super exciting.

LHOKtSFl.jpg


Aside from the case, everything on it is original. Good bit of finish checking and some dings, but pretty clean overall and the binding hasn't shrunk at all. Tuners are a bit stiff but I'm sure we can get them working well again easily. The frets are fairly worn and oxidized but still playable. It has some pretty hefty, old flatwounds on it currently and the action is a fairly high and gets higher further up the neck, but the neck is nicely worn in in some spots and is a good size overall so it's comfortable. It plays alright now but will hopefully be super good to go after a set up. The Guildsby is super broken in and feels great.

I took it to my tech yesterday to have him evaluate it and see what we were working with in terms of getting it setup or whether it needs a refret, or even possibly a neck reset.
The neck is straight (if I remember correctly) but the action is pretty high up, and the strings are already really close to the bridge pickup. His first reaction on seeing this was that it's possible it'll need a reset, as we can't do a whole lot with lowering the bridge to adjust the action. It also turns out the strings on it are 13-56 flatwounds, so gnarly. No wonder playing it has been sort of difficult. He's going to do a set up with 11-49 roundwounds and see if maybe the relieved tension from taking those huge flatwounds off is enough to bring the neck down a bit and give us some more room to adjust it. He also mentioned maybe taking the spacer out from underneath the bridge pickup to give us a bit more room to adjust. It's playable as it is (albeit difficult, unless capo'd higher up), so hopefully it will be more playable afterwards and we can put off the neck reset for a while. My hope was that it being a one owner guitar, and having been taken care of, that it wouldn't need a reset. But, as I read someone say on here - "there are vintage guitars that have had a neck reset, and those that need one." So I know somewhere in the future, it's on the table.

After talking to my tech more, he did say he doesn't feel quite comfortable with doing the reset and would have to research it more as he'd hate to ruin a good guitar. He's done plenty of acoustics, but never one of these old Guilds. I guess his point was that there's no cap at the neck joint, it looks like it's all one piece so he's not certain how he could go about it and is hoping we can avoid the reset. I trust my tech, he's great at what he does and has been doing it for a long time, but might consider looking to someone more versed in these old Guilds if it comes down to it just to be safe.

From what I've read you all post, Guilds tend to be harder to reset, and some techs refuse to even work on them because they're more labor intensive. I'm looking more into it all over the LTG archives, but figured I may as well ask and post the NGD!

So, has anyone here had a reset done on one of these old Starfires? Or know a tech who is well experienced in doing these on old Guilds? I know it's going to end up being costly, so I just want to make sure the job is done well and the guitar comes out as good as possible on the other end. I got it through Guitar Center, so worst case scenario I have their tech confirm that it needs a reset and have them refund me some money to cover the reset cost.

Also curious - I've heard there might be some people here who can actually date when this one was made? I suppose it's an early '62, based on the lack of back binding, but so far haven't found a source to get a real ballpark of when it was made in '62. All I can find is that back binding was added to these models in '62.

Anyway, more pics below!

kQb3aZ6l.jpg


BxwLpeWl.jpg


dolwWl2l.jpg


aaXRI96l.jpg


ZXpzW4Nl.jpg


k44oDjIl.jpg
 

Quantum Strummer

Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
2,382
Reaction score
118
Location
Michigan
Lovely old Guild!

Assuming you decide to drop down the bridge pickup a bit, do you have room on the bridge posts to lower the bridge? Changing to a set of lower tension strings could result in needing to loosen the trussrod (to prevent string buzzing), so you'll wanna be able to compensate for that at the bridge. At least you know the SF has a sturdy neck if it's straight even with a set of 13s on it. :)

-Dave-
 

Default

Super Moderator
Platinum Supporting
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
13,596
Reaction score
3,008
Location
Philly, or thereabouts
Guild Total
11
Tom davis guitars in merit florida. Tom is the man and worked for Guild.
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,791
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
Welcome aboard rbrcdb, nice first post!
Great looking piece, too!

Tom davis guitars in merit florida. Tom is the man and worked for Guild.

Steve I think you mean Tom Jacobs :
http://www.jacobscustomguitars.com/
Understandable though, I pulled the same goof today between Merle Travis and Merle Haggard.... :friendly_wink:

"rb", should you determine a reset's needed, you really need to see Tom's Starfire restoration thread (included a re-set) to see first-hand how good he is, he's known on the forum as Fixit and has universal excellent reviews for his work.
In fact those are pics of it on his homepage link, above.
He's quite likely the best man for the job and is even an Authorized Guild Repair Center.
But here's the original thread:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?166982-Starfire-XII-restoration/page3
Oh, and re dating it, our member Hans Moust is THE MAN, he wrote the Guild Guitar book covering the first 25 years.
If he doesn't see this and reply shortly, you can reach him directly:
http://www.guitarchives.nl/guitarsgalore/
 
Last edited:

shihan

Senior Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Messages
1,540
Reaction score
796
Location
Ventura CA
Welcome to LTG! Beautiful guitar. I hope you can avoid a neck reset; perhaps adjustments can be made.
Play it in good health!
 

GGJaguar

Reverential Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
21,319
Reaction score
31,406
Location
Skylands
Guild Total
49
Beautiful! SF III's are my favorite Guild model.
 

SFIV1967

Venerated Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
18,442
Reaction score
8,956
Location
Bavaria / Germany
Guild Total
8
I suppose it's an early '62, based on the lack of back binding, but so far haven't found a source to get a real ballpark of when it was made in '62.
Welcome to LTG! I don't think we were ever able to date the exact month of those vintage guitars. By chance Hans might have the ledgers from which month it shipped. Your serial number is clearly 1962, the first S/N was 18420 and the last S/N was 22722. But I would not assume they were done in equal quantities each week or month. Hans Moust wrote in his book that during 1962 the body got binding on the back as well. I don't think it matters when exactly. So Hans might be the only one who could potentially have more details.
Ralf
 

jp

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2006
Messages
4,850
Reaction score
1,764
Location
Pacific Northwest US
Guild Total
4
Congrats and welcome rbrcbr! That's a beautiful example of a classic early Starfire! I bet those Dearmonds sound fantastic. I hope you can get it set up without the reset.
 

rbrcbr

Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2018
Messages
126
Reaction score
108
Location
Brooklyn, New York
Guild Total
2
Welcome aboard rbrcdb, nice first post!
Great looking piece, too!



Steve I think you mean Tom Jacobs :
http://www.jacobscustomguitars.com/
Understandable though, I pulled the same goof today between Merle Travis and Merle Haggard.... :friendly_wink:

"rb", should you determine a reset's needed, you really need to see Tom's Starfire restoration thread (included a re-set) to see first-hand how good he is, he's known on the forum as Fixit and has universal excellent reviews for his work.
In fact those are pics of it on his homepage link, above.
He's quite likely the best man for the job and is even an Authorized Guild Repair Center.
But here's the original thread:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?166982-Starfire-XII-restoration/page3
Oh, and re dating it, our member Hans Moust is THE MAN, he wrote the Guild Guitar book covering the first 25 years.
If he doesn't see this and reply shortly, you can reach him directly:
http://www.guitarchives.nl/guitarsgalore/

Thanks everyone! I guess we'll see what we're working with here in a couple days. Fingers crossed for sure.

Adorshki - thanks for the input regarding Tom and his work. As this is a piece I'll want to keep for a long time, I'm thinking I may go ahead and send it to him to have it reset sometime in these next 6 months to get it over with and out of the way.
I'll probably send Hans a message too here in a bit and see if we can date it!
Thanks!
 

rbrcbr

Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2018
Messages
126
Reaction score
108
Location
Brooklyn, New York
Guild Total
2
Welcome to LTG! I don't think we were ever able to date the exact month of those vintage guitars. By chance Hans might have the ledgers from which month it shipped. Your serial number is clearly 1962, the first S/N was 18420 and the last S/N was 22722. But I would not assume they were done in equal quantities each week or month. Hans Moust wrote in his book that during 1962 the body got binding on the back as well. I don't think it matters when exactly. So Hans might be the only one who could potentially have more details.
Ralf

It's funny, i guess I must have found the Google Books version of his book because I read in some excerpt from a Guild book online saying that '62 is when they added the back binding. Will definitely have to send him a message, or see if he replies to this thread first!
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,791
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
It's funny, i guess I must have found the Google Books version of his book because I read in some excerpt from a Guild book online saying that '62 is when they added the back binding. Will definitely have to send him a message, or see if he replies to this thread first!
Yep, think it must have been his, don't know of anything else that has those kinds of details, and he's seen more in the 20+years since that was first published, since then so may have been able to narrow it down some more.***
Also, somebody mentioned last week that he was on a camping trip, although he answered 2 questions that day I think, and has been quiet since then.
So just have a little patience, he won't let you down on an email.

*** Not to dispute Ralf (SFIV1967) about the uncertainty factor for dating in '62; he's one of about 3 guys here that I consider to be the next best thing to Hans for depth and accuracy of info.
When it comes to specs and dating info, you can pretty much take what he says to the bank, too.
:friendly_wink:
 

hansmoust

Enlightened Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
9,202
Reaction score
3,506
Location
Netherlands
... somebody mentioned last week that he was on a camping trip, although he answered 2 questions that day I think, and has been quiet since then.

Yes, I am on a camping trip and when I'm close to a WiFi spot, I will check my messages and if I see a question on LTG that I can answer off the top of my head, I will do that.

To answer a question for which I need to check my database, you will have to wait till I'm back in the Netherlands, which is after November 13th.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

rbrcbr

Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2018
Messages
126
Reaction score
108
Location
Brooklyn, New York
Guild Total
2
Yes, I am on a camping trip and when I'm close to a WiFi spot, I will check my messages and if I see a question on LTG that I can answer off the top of my head, I will do that.

To answer a question for which I need to check my database, you will have to wait till I'm back in the Netherlands, which is after November 13th.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

No big deal! I hope you had a great camping trip. When you get a chance, it would be awesome if you can find a date on this one! Thanks Hans!
 

hansmoust

Enlightened Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
9,202
Reaction score
3,506
Location
Netherlands
I suppose it's an early '62, based on the lack of back binding, but so far haven't found a source to get a real ballpark of when it was made in '62. All I can find is that back binding was added to these models in '62.

Hello rbrcbr,

Forgot to say welcome in my earlier message, so here it is ........ welcome!

Your Guild Starfire III was completed on March 30, 1962 , which by the way was a Friday.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

rbrcbr

Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2018
Messages
126
Reaction score
108
Location
Brooklyn, New York
Guild Total
2
Hello rbrcbr,

Forgot to say welcome in my earlier message, so here it is ........ welcome!

Your Guild Starfire III was completed on March 30, 1962 , which by the way was a Friday.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

Thanks Hans! Very cool, nice to know! Thank you for having put in as much work as you have with this stuff, it's appreciated.

Cheers!

Ruben
 
Top