Jury Duty

Antney

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I’m sitting in the jury room waiting to go through the obligatory routine of juror selection. Although it can be interesting to sit in a trial, it simply cost me too much money to be away from my business.

I’ve sat on two trials...both which could have been mediated to a compromise, but because the defendants and their lawyers were arrogant we threw the book at em. We could have easily found them not guilty if they didn’t take us for morons.

I hope I don’t make it past 10am. I’m going to approach the bench and plead poverty. If that doesn’t work I’ll give the defendant the “I’m watching you” hand gesture from the jury pool.
 

dapmdave

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I feel your pain. Jury duty, if selected for a trial, just sucks.
 

Cougar

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....but because the defendants and their lawyers were arrogant we threw the book at em. We could have easily found them not guilty if they didn’t take us for morons.....

So evidence of criminality, or lack of it, doesn't come into consideration?
 

Antney

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So evidence of criminality, or lack of it, doesn't come into consideration?

Case 1. Defendant: auto repair shop. Quoted the plaintiff $800. Told plaintiff they would call if higher. Never called. Hit the plaintiff with a $2600 invoice. Plaintiff stole car off the lot and never paid. Defendant refused to admit any wrong doing. So we found them guilty of fraud and ruled the plaintiff owed them zilch

Case 2. Defendant was a chef. Drove drunk into a tree after work. No one hurt. Probably get just a slap in the wrist and lesson learned until his perry mason lawyer inferred the fault actually laid at the feet of the restaurant for providing staff with a free cocktail at the end of their shift. The real criminal in the case, he said, was the restaurant. Didn’t matter that his client admitted to three drinks in a one hour period. Not to mention he told us the alcohol odor the police detected at the scene was spilled cooking wine. Didn’t matter he had changed his clothes before leaving.

Both cases could have decided less harshly, but when the jurors were treated like immature juveniles their fate was sealed

I rest my case
 

gjmalcyon

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Inconvenient? Yes. At times ludicrous? Yes.

But important enough to the framers that part or all of three different Amendments to the Constitution (5th, 6th, & 7th) enshrine the right to jury trial as a basic right.

Should I ever have to rely on a jury for justice, I hope mine is engaged and committed.
 

Brad Little

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I had a colleague who always avoided being assigned to a case. He let it be known that he had been a cop in the service and he believed if a cop arrested someone he/she must be guilty.
Brad
 

Antney

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Update. Sitting in the jury room. “The View” is on the telly. I’m not a happy camper. Even if it’s a shoplifting case I’m voting for life with no possibility of parole.
 

Quantum Strummer

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I got a jury duty notice this past spring. But a couple days before I was scheduled to report the final list of groups selected was posted online, and my group wasn't on it. So that group is disbanded, apparently, and all who were in it go back into the general juror candidate pool. I know folks who've served multiple times, while I've yet to serve.

-Dave-
 

Brad Little

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If you get selected - how do you get compensated for all inconvinience, expences, earnig loss etc?
Some corporate employers pay their employees during jury duty time. In CT, Sikorsky and Pratt & Whitney do, or at least did at one time, not sure if they still do. CT state employees are paid their regular salary as well. Not much you can do if you are a small business person or employee of a company that doesn't pay.
Brad
 

gjmalcyon

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If you get selected - how do you get compensated for all inconvinience, expences, earnig loss etc?

Most court jurisdictions pay jurors a nominal amount - in New Jersey, Superior Court jurors are paid $5 per day. Starting with the 4th consecutive day of jury service, it goes to $35 per day until the end of service.

If your New Jersey employer will not pay you during your jury service, a judge can consider financial hardship as one of the factors (but not the only factor) in excusing you from jury duty.
 

Nuuska

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Hello

I can see that it is a balance between "Since we only get 5 bucks a day- let´s vote quick and get outta here!" and "While we get 3000 per day, let us take good long thinking about this, examine every angle and not hesitate."
 

chazmo

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I'm gonna' say this... From the point of view of a juror, the judicial system in the US is ponderous and terribly labor intensive. The idea of having an impartial jury is nearly impossible when you consider how Americans react to jury duty... Many of the people who can be rational jurists have no interest in serving. And, really, if you're struggling to put food on the table or in a particularly risky position with your job, you can't serve.

The ponderous nature of the system, slow as molasses, is an incredible drain on a normal, intelligent jurist (in my opinion).

I also think that the grand jury is an incredible waste of time and is an artifact of a time when prosecutors did not have their **** together. For all intents and purposes, a grand jury in the modern world is a rubber stamp.

That ALL said, despite all the abuse, and the ponderousness, and the labor-intensive nature of the process, the US system is the worst -- except for all the rest. I can't think of any place I think I'd get a more fair trial than in the US.
 

richardp69

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I'm gonna' say this... From the point of view of a juror, the judicial system in the US is ponderous and terribly labor intensive. The idea of having an impartial jury is nearly impossible when you consider how Americans react to jury duty... Many of the people who can be rational jurists have no interest in serving. And, really, if you're struggling to put food on the table or in a particularly risky position with your job, you can't serve.

The ponderous nature of the system, slow as molasses, is an incredible drain on a normal, intelligent jurist (in my opinion).

I also think that the grand jury is an incredible waste of time and is an artifact of a time when prosecutors did not have their **** together. For all intents and purposes, a grand jury in the modern world is a rubber stamp.

That ALL said, despite all the abuse, and the ponderousness, and the labor-intensive nature of the process, the US system is the worst -- except for all the rest. I can't think of any place I think I'd get a more fair trial than in the US.

AMEN brother, and quite well stated.
 

Cougar

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Case 1. Defendant: auto repair shop.... Case 2. Defendant was a chef. Drove drunk into a tree.... I rest my case

Haha! OK, I was going to say how glad I was that my last job (for 10 years?) was not assisting a criminal attorney, but those cases could have actually been civil cases, at least the second one. Here's my claim to fame: Felders v. Bairett. The gist of the final outcome was that my boss got his attorney fees paid by the (Highway Patrol) defendant, which is typically how it works if the jury sides with you in a civil rights case - in this case a Fourth Amendment violation. I found the case that shot down the defendant's claimed "offer of judgment" because he wasn't yet a "defendant" when he made the offer. (We had later offered to settle, for a similar amount, but the defense wasn't interested.) The attorney fees over the (ridiculous!) 10 year span of the case amounted to about a half a million bucks. Unfortunately, the jury only gave our client 15 grand. We had asked for much more, but the jury makes that decision. I got a pretty good bonus when that ship came in and prompty retired!
 

Bill Ashton

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Wow, this one hit a nerve!

I am on my second month of Grand Jury duty. In Massachusetts it varies by county, but here I am on my second tour of five days a week for three weeks, for three months. Here, everything that is punishable as a felony (meaning at least 2 1/2 years in state prison as opposed to county house-of-correction) must go before a Grand Jury.

My thought to all the nitwits and wise-guys out there...if you could just keep your f*#%king mouth shut when that state cop pulls you over, you could really avoid a lot of grief. Not to be political, but generally the drug busts are secondary to all the guns and ammunition recovered! After that, lock all your doors at night, as well as your car. And...there are some really, really BAD people ourtthere. I pray you or your family are not exposed to them.

To Nuuska's question, we get $50 a day after the first three days. I am retired, so even though I lose my part-time work pay, it'll end up a wash. If I was the major bread-winner and my company didn't continue to pay me (even if they deducted the jury-pay), I would be a hurting puppy! There is no getting out of it, though you can postpone it. If you are not a single care-giver to a elderly relative 24 hrs, you're gonna serve!

Postscript: Just to give an opposing view to my buddy Chaz, the Grand Jury actually IS a good thing, its a citizen review panel to make sure the system doesn't run amuk! While the majority of our cases have received a "true bill," we have in fact found "no bill" (and the case as is cannot continue). Its my understanding that the Grand Jury is more an East Coast thing, thought that may be wrong. We do get to ask probing questions of the witnesses before us, and it is obvious when a case has not been prepared properly. But frankly there is a complete lack of people of color or other ethnicity, and that seems to be by their own design...i.e. feigning understanding English. Maybe its out of fear, but they should be there! Though I must say, there seem to be plenty of Caucasians that can keep us busy..disfunctional families spawn just what one might expect.
 
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GardMan

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As I see it, we can't have it both ways... If we want to be judged by a jury of our peers (should the need ever arise), we have to agree to serve in the same capacity for others (our peers).

I have been "called" for jury duty four times in the last 33 years... and none have been at what would be considered "convenient" times:

The first, I got called to serve in San Francisco, 6 months after moving to Salt Lake City. Obviously, I was excused from that call.

For the second, I was summoned for district court in SLC near the end of the semester (a few weeks before finals) in a term I was teaching four days a week. Despite pleading hardship for my students (and getting a letter from my Dept chair), I was NOT excused. I had to call every day after 5 to find out if I had to appear or not. So in each class each day, I would have to tell my students to look for an announcement or e-mail to find out if class was canceled the next day. They never reached my "number," so never had to appear...

The third time, I was summoned to appear for SLC municipal justice court Wednesday the week before 4th of July, and we already had non-refundable plane tickets to fly home for a family reunion for the 4th on Friday. I was not excused... but was told that, if selected, it was unlikely that the trial would last more than a day. Well, I was selected, and the trial lasted 2 days (one full day for the trial, and then another for jury deliberations). I DID make the flight, but almost missed my youngest daughter's theater performance in "Annie" Thursday night. Two more anecdotes re: this service below...

My last time... about 5 years ago (can't remember which court) was, again, in a semester when I was teaching. I called the clerk and explained my situation, and she said "Well, I can work with you... when would it be convenient for you to serve?" and we agreed on spring break. I was summoned to appear, but was NOT selected.

Three anecdotes about the summons in which I did serve on a jury:

First, when I arrived to fill out my questionaires before jury selection began, I recognized one of my students from the semester before was also in the jury pool. When they brought us in to the court and asked questions verbally, we were asked if we knew the defendants, lawyers, judge, or any of the other jury candidates. Of course, my student and I had to acknowledge our relationship, and the judge asked my student if, as her professor, she would place any additional weight to my opinions? With a straight face she answered, "only if it is a question about cell biology!" That got a chuckle from the court.

Second, the case was a DUI... and I am a teetotaler. Not by religion (tho' I live in UT), and not by philosophy... I just don't like the taste of alcohol or its effect on my thinking. I expected that would immediately disqualify me... and I did, indeed, get called to the judges chambers for additional questioning. I was quite surprised when I was selected to serve on the 4 member jury (after four hours deliberation, we acquitted the defendant... it took that long because one of the jurors, not me, held the philosophy that the police were ALWAYS right. So, if the defendant was arrested, she was guilty).

Lastly, one of the prospective jurors showed up for jury selection in t-shirt and shorts (instructions suggested casual business attire), talked as the judge was giving instructions and questioning others, and was basically disrespectful. He got a stern talking to from the judge, and was threatened with a contempt citation before being dismissed.

One last note: earlier this year, a trial in Summit City Utah had to be delayed because too few people answered their jury summons, making it impossible to empanel a jury. Each of the jurors that didn't show were summoned to court to explain their reasons. It is my recollection that few were excused, but many were cited for contempt, and some had to perform community service as a result.

So, as I see it, if a jury trial is our right as citizens, serving on a jury is our responsibility to preserve that right. I'll get off my high horse now...
 

chazmo

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Wow, this one hit a nerve!

I am on my second month of Grand Jury duty. In Massachusetts it varies by county, but here I am on my second tour of five days a week for three weeks, for three months. Here, everything that is punishable as a felony (meaning at least 2 1/2 years in state prison as opposed to county house-of-correction) must go before a Grand Jury.

My thought to all the nitwits and wise-guys out there...if you could just keep your f*#%king mouth shut when that state cop pulls you over, you could really avoid a lot of grief. Not to be political, but generally the drug busts are secondary to all the guns and ammunition recovered! After that, lock all your doors at night, as well as your car. And...there are some really, really BAD people ourtthere. I pray you or your family are not exposed to them.

To Nuuska's question, we get $50 a day after the first three days. I am retired, so even though I lose my part-time work pay, it'll end up a wash. If I was the major bread-winner and my company didn't continue to pay me (even if they deducted the jury-pay), I would be a hurting puppy! There is no getting out of it, though you can postpone it. If you are not a single care-giver to a elderly relative 24 hrs, you're gonna serve!

Postscript: Just to give an opposing view to my buddy Chaz, the Grand Jury actually IS a good thing, its a citizen review panel to make sure the system doesn't run amuk! While the majority of our cases have received a "true bill," we have in fact found "no bill" (and the case as is cannot continue). Its my understanding that the Grand Jury is more an East Coast thing, thought that may be wrong. We do get to ask probing questions of the witnesses before us, and it is obvious when a case has not been prepared properly. But frankly there is a complete lack of people of color or other ethnicity, and that seems to be by their own design...i.e. feigning understanding English. Maybe its out of fear, but they should be there! Though I must say, there seem to be plenty of Caucasians that can keep us busy..disfunctional families spawn just what one might expect.
Bill, it's great to hear a countering opinion. When you wrap up your term, I'd love to hear how many "no bill" verdicts your pass. You're certainly right that if you're quashing a reasonable percentage of these cases, then it's probably worth doing the thing, and I'll happily eat my words. Thank you for taking the system seriously, Bill! I mean it.
 

dreadnut

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C'mon you guys; we have the best justice system money can buy!
 
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