Does anyone on here own a Guild D40C? If so, what year?

PittPastor

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I was talking to someone last night and I said my D40C was actually irreplaceable to me -- if only because a new one would cost so much I would have to save to get one... and they asked me what a new one goes for. Which, of course, is $0 because Cordoba Guild hasn't put out a D40C. And, I suspect they never will.

But that got me to thinking: How rare is this D40C? I've never seen one advertised anywhere. I've checked Reverb and GC, and can't find any out there now, and very few that were ever sold like mine (sunburst). Was this just an extremely unpopular model that they did for a year or so and then abandoned?

The closest I saw to what I own was this one that was listed on Reverb. Is it just me, or does this saddle look pretty low? I ask because my original saddle was really low, too, and I always thought that meant it was a B-stock. Now, I'm not so sure:

cvxb4x9odixbdbpvshph.jpg


Just curious...
 

adorshki

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Pitt, I don't own one, but in fact the guy who invented it , Rick Excellente, joined up and posted here a while back!
But can't recall his handle so can't find his posts.
The D40C was actually the world's first cutaway dreadnought flattop.

My memory is that development was actually started in '76 (actually I see now it was '72) but maybe it was later...or it just took that long?
Ah, here we go, Ralf confirms '75 as first year, here:
https://www.48starcollectibles.com/...f139433887a97daa66f/m/i/midnightcowboy2_2.jpg
The Guild s/n' charts show 'em in production through '91, and using the same s/n's as D40's from '86'-91 so getting a handle on how many were actually produced might be problematic and best answered by Hans anyway.
Looks like plenty enough were made but yes they're rarebirds even here.
I can recall anecdotes about cutaways being prone to neck block slippage, for one thing, so maybe attrition rate was high?.
Also, the Florentine cutaway isn't nearly as popular aesthetically as the Venetian, so maybe that put off folks from getting 'em fixed when needed, or possibly there're complications with working on a Florentine cutaway compared to a Venetian?
Or maybe they're just highly prized and rarely offered up for sale by owners who're still busy gigging instead of joining up here?
 

PittPastor

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Thanks adorshki!

What's your opinion of the saddle in that picture? That's not from my D40C, that's from one that was on Reverb, and IIRC it was the same year as mine.
 

adorshki

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Thanks adorshki!

What's your opinion of the saddle in that picture? That's not from my D40C, that's from one that was on Reverb, and IIRC it was the same year as mine.

Tough call, sir, I guess it does look a little low but photo looks distorted to me in the first place.
I think the real issue is if the combined bridge and saddle height's within 1/32nd of the ideal 1/2" then it's most likely "As built".
Otherwise, without an alignment check to establish whether the neck geometry's good, saddle height all by itself is meaningless.
Somebody coulda lowered it just to suit personal taste in action.
And remember Guild chose the bridge to match the neck angle after the neck was set, and tailored the saddle height from there.
3/16 is often cited as an ideal saddle height and I've seen folks here even say they're ok with 1/8 although I do think that's low.
If string break angle is good though, it could be fine.
EDIT:
OH! Just realized I put in a wrong link in my original reply.
Fixed now, but here it is again:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?186222-Question-about-a-D40C
 
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Rayk

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Tough call, sir, I guess it does look a little low but photo looks distorted to me in the first place.
I think the real issue is if the combined bridge and saddle height's within 1/32nd of the ideal 1/2" then it's most likely "As built".
Otherwise, without an alignment check to establish whether the neck geometry's good, saddle height all by itself is meaningless.
Somebody coulda lowered it just to suit personal taste in action.
And remember Guild chose the bridge to match the neck angle after the neck was set, and tailored the saddle height from there.
3/16 is often cited as an ideal saddle height and I've seen folks here even say they're ok with 1/8 although I do think that's low.
If string break angle is good though, it could be fine.
EDIT:
OH! Just realized I put in a wrong link in my original reply.
Fixed now, but here it is again:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?186222-Question-about-a-D40C

If I may say ,to me it's mid low saddle height it's similar to my pf55 which needs to be raised . If it is as All says, everything is good and just a personal setting it still should come up on the high E side , if you look the high strings they have lost their break angle . On my guitar string clarity is lost especially in the upper registery on the high E.
 

PittPastor

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Ray, this isn’t my guitar the picture is of... I was just wondering if it was made that way by design.

Al, I don’t have enough experience with different saddle heights to have an opinion. But I’ll start paying more attention now for sure.
 

adorshki

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Ray, this isn’t my guitar the picture is of... I was just wondering if it was made that way by design.
I do think that saddle in the pic is a replacement, it just looks too darn white for one thing.
My guess is that the saddle in the pic was tailored to an owner's preferences.
Another detail I learned her is that Guild a/e saddles from the later '80's at least, were actually thicker, it helps intonation, and even compensated, something I didn't think Guild did until Tacoma.
Info courtesy of our member Jane (GuildFS4612ce) who has just such a piece, named in her handle.

Al, I don’t have enough experience with different saddle heights to have an opinion. But I’ll start paying more attention now for sure.
Again, lowering the saddle is the "normal" way to lower action.**
The formula is that action height at 12th fret will be lowered by exactly 1/2 the amount you lower the saddle, it's just pure geometry.
Another element of saddle height is profile: the top edge should have the same radius as the fingerboard.
This ensures the strings are all in the same "plane" of consistent height in relation to each other along the neck.
Yes it normally graduates to a tad lower on the treble E side for intonation purposes, as the trebles are more prone to going sharp when fretted.
A quick recap on "break angle": That's the angle formed by the string where it crosses over the saddle.
In general, and within an "optimum" range, the sharper the angle, the more efficiently the energy of the vibrating string is transmitted through the saddle into the bridge/top.
That's why lowering a saddle too much not only risks fret buzz but reduction in tone/volume/sustain/.
** All too often the importance of nut slot depth is ignored when discussions of playability focus on saddle height.
Nut slot depth is actually more important than saddle height when it comes to playability on the first 3 frets.
Anyway, to recap:
In general, 1/2" of combined height of bridge and saddle (measured at centerline, typically the high point of the arc) is considered to be the optimum bets transmission of energy into a top, and miught vary according to body size and scale length.
Of that 1/2", bridge is ideally about 5/16" and saddle is ideally about 3/16", for optimum break angle.
Tolerances come into play due to variations in angle of original neckset.
My Corona D40's a full 16th" over 1/2" while my D25's 1/16" under, both as built, allowing that the '25 got a bone saddle profiled the same as the original.
D40 saddle height 7/32", D25's is 5/32".
Both have 6/64' action on bass E at 12th fret, so apparently the D40's neckset angle is a tad sharper than the '25's, so it required a taller bridge and saddle when built.
 
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Butch

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I had one that I purchased from Musicians Friend back in 1979 or 80 and had all kinds of problems with it. It would never stay in tune, it needed a neck reset when it was just a couple of years old, and the top started pulling up on it. It was just a disaster from the beginning. I ended up trading it and an amplifier for a 1970 Martin D28.
 

Westerly Wood

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I think Pat Methany played one for years, at least Guild book has a pic of him.
 

adorshki

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I had one that I purchased from Musicians Friend back in 1979 or 80 and had all kinds of problems with it. It would never stay in tune, it needed a neck reset when it was just a couple of years old, and the top started pulling up on it. It was just a disaster from the beginning.
Bummer.
(No snark intended)
Sounds like that one should never have made it out of Westerly.

I think Pat Methany played one for years, at least Guild book has a pic of him.
Forgot all about that!:
guildD40C-1979.jpg

pat-metheny.jpg

LOVE what the b&w contrast does for the top in that one.
Usually think of these 2 guys when it comes to Guild flat-top jazzers:
towner_abercrombie_1976.jpg

Veering wildly along, Abercrombie's been a D'Addario endorser too, EJ-15's to be exact.
Kind of surprising to me since F50's were always intended for lights or even mediums as far as I know...suspect it must be for the bendability.
 

PittPastor

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I had one that I purchased from Musicians Friend back in 1979 or 80 and had all kinds of problems with it. It would never stay in tune, it needed a neck reset when it was just a couple of years old, and the top started pulling up on it. It was just a disaster from the beginning. I ended up trading it and an amplifier for a 1970 Martin D28.

Wow! That's awful. Sorry to hear it. None of those have been true of mine, and its been through the war. The neck reset is interesting, because as I have said before, it appears the saddle of these is set really low. So there isn't much room for movement. But the neck on my D40C has been surprisingly stable, so I was fortunate.

I think Pat Methany played one for years, at least Guild book has a pic of him.

Nice catch! Thanks!


Forgot all about that!:
pat-metheny.jpg

OK, I have to ask, what is that C-Clamp/microphone thingie on the bottom of Pat's D40C? Is that a pickup of some sort?
 

adorshki

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OK, I have to ask, what is that C-Clamp/microphone thingie on the bottom of Pat's D40C? Is that a pickup of some sort?

I will bet you anything it's actually the stand he was known for using.
You can see the other clamp on the lower bout in the Guild advert photo.
Mentioned here a long time ago:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?159393-Pat-Metheny-and-D-40C.
Like classical players using classical position to keep the guitar motionless for best ergonomics and playing precision, a stand performs that function for Mr. Metheny.
:friendly_wink:

Hmm...kinda surprised I can't find a pic but more corroboration and Metheny love over here:
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343840
Ahhh.....finally:

Screen-Shot-2012-12-14-at-11.18.56-AM.png
 
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