12 string love

adorshki

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To tame your guitar Al try experimenting with different bridge pin material with either a full replacement or just on the high strings . Many have used that concept to tame thier guitars ��
Going with silk and steel strings first.
I ain't such a fanatic that I want to start with bridge pins, besides which they're usually sought to increase the properties I'm looking to decrease, besides which I HATE "experimenting" when it's gonna be tantamount to a string change.
And actually if you listen to the take in "Maple: Does the Angle Affect the Jangle?", there's good bass response (from the right angle) as you mention, it's only the trebles I'm looking to tame.
Plus it's got vocals.
:friendly_wink:
Oh yeah also the factory pins have abalone dots, plastic though they may be.
Y'gotta remember I've been a purist for factory stock up until about a year ago, or maybe 5 or 6 years ago when I started running .11's instead of .010's on it.
And THAT only because the .010's shredded my fingernails (and I could bend 'em right off the fretboard)!
In fact even the .11's still do if I'm not real careful.
If I coulda found anything with .12's with low enough set tension I woulda started there instead of the s'n's.
Guitar was built for .010's.
 

dapmdave

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Rosewood fretboard and bridge* vs ebony on F412, perhaps?
(*Depending on construction years, I think)

I do like the feel of an ebony fretboard. But most of my guitars are rosewood-equipped.
 

adorshki

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Newtone Heritage Low Tension 12-string sets include;

- .011 - .047

- .012 - .051

- .013 - .055

Order straight from the UK factory; https://newtonestrings.com/shop/heritage-series-acoustic-12-string/

Appreciate it, but my comment was actually part of a digression about a maple-bodied 6-string since Dave was mentioning his love of maple jangle, whereas I was looking to tone it down.
But the concepts ought to apply to 12-strings as well.
I do have a couple of sets of GHS Silk and Steel on the way, .011-.048, and confirmed the set tension on their site.
Nice thing about their site is their table showing the tension for all sets, and a given string tuned down or up as many as 2 steps, which is exactly what I'm doing.
I'm actually looking to drive the top with less force than the .010-.047 factory set.
I know, sounds counter-intuitive, but I love what it does to sustain and don't really notice any volume loss, although the S/S will be a little less force even than the Custom lights (011-052 pb) on there now, also tuned down.
In fact they even offer a Silk and Bronze set which I initially thought was going to be what I wanted, but they were actually showing as brighter on the spectrum than the Silk and Steel.
That seemed to be corroborated by the fact the S/B's showed higher tension for same gauge as S/S.
And they do offer 2 12-string sets in each formula (4 options and even singles for custom sets) for those who're looking to experiment.
So even though I'm a D'A loyalist because they were Guild's OEM for years, in this case GHS is offering something D'A doesn't, so they get the test drive.

Plus I got a suspicion it'll be a tad quicker and more economical than literally importing 'em.
:friendly_wink:
 
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Cheab

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My first guitar was a Eko 12. I'd sit and move the needle back on records to learn how to play and when I popped a string I'd play 6 strings until one broke. This was back in 1980. Haven't owned another 12 since but that's about to change. Just bought one on the Verb, should be here in a few days. Soon to be a NGD post ;)
 

Brucebubs

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In fact they even offer a Silk and Bronze set which I initially thought was going to be what I wanted, but they were actually showing as brighter on the spectrum than the Silk and Steel.
That seemed to be corroborated by the fact the S/B's showed higher tension for same gauge as S/S.

On the GHS packaging I've seen them rate Silk & Bronze as warmer than Silk & Steels and I believe this is their chart.

cIihAOAl.jpg


I've used both on 6-string and 12-string guitars.
They feel and play and sound quite different to each other.
Silk & Bronze are much more like a warmer tone PB string.

I like a warm tone and use John Pearse Pure Nickels on my maple Huss & Dalton MJ Custom.
Another string worth trying is DR Sunbeam round-cores.
 
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adorshki

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On the GHS packaging I've seen them rate Silk & Bronze as warmer than Silk & Steels and I believe this is their chart.

cIihAOAl.jpg


I've used both on 6-string and 12-string guitars.
They feel and play and sound quite different to each other.
Silk & Bronze are much more like a warmer tone PB string.
I like a warm tone and use John Pearse Pure Nickels on my maple Huss & Dalton MJ Custom.
Another string worth trying is DR Sunbeam round-cores.

I remember we tossed that back and forth because originally I'd seen a different chart than you, showing S'n'S as warmer but for me the critical criteria was still total set tension and the lowest potential with a gauge I could use was the S'n'S.
I put 'em on and I'm now sure the S'n'Sis in fact "mellower" than the pb, but ran into the trade-off I feared: ultra-short life.
I only got about 15 good hours on the set before notching the G.
I know I'm promoting my own agenda but those who may have missed 'em and are wondering how the experiment finally turned out might be interested in the vids I posted with the S'n'S on the F65ce:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?199255-Al-s-Farewell-Tour/page2
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?200201-quot-The-Warmup-quot

Anyway, just an example of S'n's on a particular build formula.
:friendly_wink:
 

Brucebubs

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I remember we tossed that back and forth because originally I'd seen a different chart than you, showing S'n'S as warmer but for me the critical criteria was still total set tension and the lowest potential with a gauge I could use was the S'n'S.
I put 'em on and I'm now sure the S'n'Sis in fact "mellower" than the pb, but ran into the trade-off I feared: ultra-short life.
I only got about 15 good hours on the set before notching the G.
I know I'm promoting my own agenda but those who may have missed 'em and are wondering how the experiment finally turned out might be interested in the vids I posted with the S'n'S on the F65ce:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?199255-Al-s-Farewell-Tour/page2
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?200201-quot-The-Warmup-quot

Anyway, just an example of S'n's on a particular build formula.
:friendly_wink:

The back of this pack of GHS Silk & Bronze still shows them as more mellow than Silk & Steels but I do agree with with you on 2 things; yes, I also think S&S's sound more mellow than S&B's and yes, they don't last long.

pcXBuQdl.jpg


p.s. The ultimate soft-feel, warm tone strings are Thomastik-Infeld 'Plectrums'. La Bella Silk & Steels are a good 2nd.

eGtH0rYl.jpg
 

Guildedagain

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I've got a set of the GHS S&S on my DC5E that are worn down to the bone, looks like they're missing winding over the frets in the G/C/D chord area, but they still sound fairly amazing, I still record on them. Was going to change them 3 months ago to the JP Phosphor Bronze last time one of these threads blew through, or was it this one? At any rate, between laziness and that they still deliver pleasing tone, they're still on.
 

adorshki

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I've got a set of the GHS S&S on my DC5E that are worn down to the bone, looks like they're missing winding over the frets in the G/C/D chord area, but they still sound fairly amazing, I still record on them. Was going to change them 3 months ago to the JP Phosphor Bronze last time one of these threads blew through, or was it this one? At any rate, between laziness and that they still deliver pleasing tone, they're still on.
I do remember you mentioning you were going to try the "S'n'B".
I suspect if you changed 'em you'd be surprised at how bad the notched ones actually are but since it occurred gradually it didn't register as strongly.
I heard 2 issues: a distinct drop off in sustain and even wonkier intonation than the dropped tuning gives, when tying to tune with harmonics.
My "patch" was to slap an .024 pb (got a few of those lying around from replacing 'em with an .025 on the dreads) on there (the silk was .022), and that's what kind of cued me in to the subtle diff between the silver winding and the pb ,even though granted, the pb was standard not silk core.
Sadly GHS doesn't offer an .024 G in S'n'S, it'd probably be ideal for me, as the rest of the set still does sound pretty good as you say, and the pb blends in pretty well even in scales.
Maybe 'cause it's the lightest wound string so fits in well in the transition from wound to unwound?
But it's definitely slightly "zingier".
 

Taylor Martin Guild

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I have had a love/hate relationship with 12 string guitars sense 1974.
My first few 12 strings were all laminated guitars.
Back then I only had a pitchfork to tune with.
I spent a half hour a day trying to tune followed by about 15 minutes of playing out of tune.

During these years I also had a 6 string to help keep my sanity.
In about 1978, I gave Guild a try. It was a D-25-12.
Still had the pitchfork and still had a hard time trying to tune the guitar.
The wide neck that Guild 12 strings were known for also made playing the guitar difficult for me.

After several years of frustration, I sold the Guild and bought a Yamaha solid top Rosewood laminated sides and back 12 string.
That was a great guitar and I enjoyed playing it for several years.
It was the easiest one for me to tune.
Part because it was set up well and part because I had learned a lot more about playing guitar and had developed a better ear.

One day I was at a favorite guitar shop and saw a beautiful Guild JF-30-12.
I played it and it was love at first strum.
It took me a year before I finally sold the Yamaha and bought the Guild.
That was about 1989.

I enjoyed the Guild for a long time before I started to get hand problems.
The 12 string got less and less playing time and I finally sold it to a friend that had wanted it for several years.
I used that money to buy my fantastic Guild D-55 which by the way did I say that I love!

It only took about 6 months and I was in withdrawal.
I needed another 12 string.

So back on the hunt I went.
This time I didn't want to pay over $400.00 for a guitar that would not get a lot of playing time.
I found a great Crafter 12 string that fit everything that I was looking for.
That has been my 12 string for the past 6 or 7 years.

That seems to be about my limit for 12 string ownership.
Yesterday I traded the Crafter in on a used Yamaha LL-16-12.
I will pick the Yamaha up on Monday.
This is an all solid wood 12 string with Engleman Spruce top and solid Rosewood sides and back.

I hope this one will have the sound that the other 12 strings have all been missing.
A bigger bottom end.
I plan to string it up with medium gauge PB strings and tune it down a step to D to D.

So let's see how long I keep this one. LOL
 

beecee

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Nice to re-read through this thread.

My 412 & 512 are case queens, the ol' 212 sees a bit of play but she'll be heading into hibernation soon with all the "good ones" now that we are seeing sub 30 degree weather, (gas forced air heat), this week. I honestly don't think I've played the JF-30-12 this year...sad!

Leaves the Ibanez for the foreseeable future as the go to 12.

Gotta think hard about some SNS or SNB strings. I've always had much heavier PB strings on this then I prefer on my other guitars, and never a whimper from that Ibanez!!
 
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crank

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Nice to re-read through this thread.

My 412 & 512 are case queens, the ol' 212 sees a bit of play but she'll be heading into hibernation soon with all the "good ones" now that we are seeing sub 30 degree weather, (gas forced air heat), this week. I honestly don't think I've played the JF-30-12 this year...sad!

Leaves the Ibanez for the foreseeable future as the go to 12.

Gotta think hard about some SNS or SNB strings. I've always had much heavier PB strings on this then I prefer on my other guitars, and never a whimper from that Ibanez!!

Wait, you have a 412 and a 512 but don't play them?

I'm gonna get my 412 out and play her some today. She could use a new set of strings but I am lazy.
 

Cougar

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....the ol' 212 sees a bit of play but she'll be heading into hibernation soon with all the "good ones" now that we are seeing sub 30 degree weather, (gas forced air heat), this week.....

Heh. Speaking of which, we just made the trip up to North Idaho for a couple weeks. (I brought my Martin 12-string as my travel guitar since I got such a good deal on it.) Meanwhile, I pulled the $100 laminate Jay Turser 6-string out of the unheated garage that I'd left up here. I don't even have a case for it, so it's seen summer heat and some sub-freezing temps. And low humidity - forgetabout it!

Looks like it hasn't been touched by the weather, AND it was even still in tune! Amazing!
 

beecee

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Wait, you have a 412 and a 512 but don't play them?

I'm gonna get my 412 out and play her some today. She could use a new set of strings but I am lazy.

See my avatar? That's George Costanza from Seinfeld in a velour gym suit. That is basically how I dress when I pull them or the Orph out. SO I need to wait till my daughter is out of the house to dress up to play them..wife gave up on me years ago but I don't want to lose the cool factor with a 15 year old. Kidding of course, they get played but very little I am afraid.

Heh. Speaking of which, we just made the trip up to North Idaho for a couple weeks. (I brought my Martin 12-string as my travel guitar since I got such a good deal on it.) Meanwhile, I pulled the $100 laminate Jay Turser 6-string out of the unheated garage that I'd left up here. I don't even have a case for it, so it's seen summer heat and some sub-freezing temps. And low humidity - forgetabout it!

Looks like it hasn't been touched by the weather, AND it was even still in tune! Amazing!

I left my beloved Madeira at our camp a little too late last year. (It is going to be 8 degrees there Friday night btw) and it did get a bit of "damage" to the top...no cracks but some odd waviness to it. But yeah, still in tune when I rescued it.
 

stormin1155

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Like Grassdog, my first acoustic was a 12-string (circa 1972). Some godawful Conn or something with action so high you could only play cowboy chords, which was OK because that was all I knew back then.

I love 12-strings, but my relationship with them is sort of on-again/off-again. I'll go for long periods without playing it, so I'll say to myself... "I never play this thing, might as well sell it." But as soon as I sell it I discover that I really need a 12-string, so I go out and buy one, but then I'll go for long periods without playing it, so I'll say to myself....

So after going through that cycle several times, I've resigned myself to always having a 12-string... well, actually two, an acoustic and an electric. Well, actually three, since I currently have two acoustics. I have a lovely old Yamaha FG-512 with a neck so fat I'm convinced it was custom made for Andre the Giant. It's for sale, but so far I've kept that a secret because I just like looking at it. My other one is a G-312 Guild. Again, a very lovely guitar that sounds glorious, but I think the name, G-312, is rather odd, since it's essentially a D-50 with 12 strings.
 

Cougar

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Actually, my FIRST 12-string was a Candelas. I think. This was back in the late 60s, mind you. I don't remember buying it. It's possible my mom picked it up at a back yard sale. (She loved those back yard sales.) I tuned it to all E's and B's and traded off playing that or keyboards in the unknown acid/experimental group BaKaDa. Then I went in the Peace Corps. Don't know what happened to that old 12-string.
 

adorshki

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Again, a very lovely guitar that sounds glorious, but I think the name, G-312, is rather odd, since it's essentially a D-50 with 12 strings.
Yeah they're funny like that.
Just occurred to me that perhaps they were trying to maintain some consistency with the F212/312 convention but changed the prefix to denote dreadnought body.
G-37 and G-41 were a couple of new dreads from the same era, and even the G75 which was a 3/4 size D50.
'76 catalog courtesy of the kind efforts of member GAD:
https://www.gad.net/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Guild-1976-Catalog-Acoustic.pdf
 
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