Inlay Inquiry

GSFV said:

That all makes sense, but on the guilds i've seen (again, maybe its a NS thing) the dots on the side of the neck stop around 17 as well. I know for sure that my Starfire doesn't have side dots that go up to 19 or 21.

Initially I was referring to the inlays on the fretboard. But I guess my question remains the same. Why don't the dots (side or fretboard) go all the way up.

Or is this one of those times where I need to grow as a player? :culpability:

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I can't tell why they stop where they do. Probably just a design decision for each guitar.

As someone who stared at the dots while he played for decades, I firmly believe that we stare at the dots because we've always stared at the dots. It's a crutch - a habit. If you practice scales try it without looking. You might be surprised at the results. You might have to force yourself for a while and then you may be surprised. Your brain can handle it by the tactile feedback of the frets under your fingers. That said, I find that I can play for quite a while without looking, and then I have to glance down to reset my known good position and then I'm good to go again.

I learned to type by buying a keyboard without any letters on it. I think playing without looking is the same.

I could easily type on a keyboard with no letters. I did this whole thing while looking at the screen, NOT the keyboard!! But I need the side dot markers. So I'm a better typist than player, then?

I went down the Google rabbit hole. I was amused that one of my hits was about a Maderia that had a marker at five but not three.

My conclusions. Fret markers are both cosmetic and a playing aid. If you go far enough back in the history of fretted stringed instruments they weren't always there. I did not find enough to decide whether the first fret markers were an attempt to make a high end instrument with bling or a low end instrument that was easier for beginners. Note that traditional classical guitars have no fret markers.

Markers at 5, 7 and 12 correspond to overtones and if you wanted to make a case for functionality, they are the most important. The number of fret markers seems to be determined by the manufacturer and the market. There seems to be no agreed on standard and some of the decisions seem to have been arbitrary. Scale length and number of frets are sometimes a factor that can predict the number of markers.

While fret markers have cosmetic value, side dots are just a playing aid. The same arbitrary rules for "how many" seem to apply. There are instruments with side dots but no fret markers, but very few with markers but not dots.

In classical music, when playing in an ensemble, the primary goal is to follow the "instructions" on the sheet of music and make adjustments in real time in response to the conductor. Switching vision between the music and the conductor is hard enough as it is and you don't need the distraction of having to look at your hand on the fingerboard. So there is definitely a skill level where a player is expected to not need or use any markers. But beginning string players (cello, bass) often have bits of tape marking the equivalent of a fret location which helps them learn until their ear and muscle memory are developed.

While the Gold Standard is being able to play without looking, it is also true that many soloists make the choice to look when they can do so. If you don't have to make eye contact with music or a conductor it is certainly safer to watch where your hand is going in a 12 fret shift even if you could probably do it with your eyes closed.

A tip that has helped me is to look at the destination of a big shift and not look at the origin and follow the moving hand.

I've had coffee and can't shut up.

Bottom line - there is no definitive reason why Guild and other makes choose the number of fret markers.

IMHO. YMMV.

Interesting. I guess I'm used to the manufactures who go all the way up and thought maybe Guild had a reason NOT to. Whether it's to be different, a functional thing, what have you. But I guess the question could be equally asked why other manufactures decided TO go all the way up. I guess now its more common to have markers all the way up, but is ultimately an arbitrary thing.

I have played classical guitar (I actually studied for a number of years and went to a school that focused on that for two years) but I almost never went beyond the 12th fret. So while I'm pretty good without markers in the 1-12 area, beyond 15 I've come to rely on them, especially for chord voicings. I guess it's time to practice unplugged in front of the TV without looking down. Haha.

Thanks for the info!

davismanLV said:

I could easily type on a keyboard with no letters. I did this whole thing while looking at the screen, NOT the keyboard!! But I need the side dot markers. So I'm a better typist than player, then?

Click to expand...

I always look at the keys.

adorshki said:

I always look at the keys.

Click to expand...

Me too. "Typing" class in high school did not do much for me...

walrus

GSFV said:

That all makes sense, but on the guilds i've seen (again, maybe its a NS thing) the dots on the side of the neck stop around 17 as well. I know for sure that my Starfire doesn't have side dots that go up to 19 or 21.

Initially I was referring to the inlays on the fretboard. But I guess my question remains the same. Why don't the dots (side or fretboard) go all the way up.

Or is this one of those times where I need to grow as a player? :culpability:

Click to expand...

Maybe they stop at 17 on the side dots b/c 19 and 21 would be tricky to drill on a Starfire?

I would also think it's difficult (and thus more expensive) to put inlays in the every diminishing space between the frets as the fretboard goes higher, o that could be why the Nightbird has inlays on the higher-frets. Additionally, as the space between frets gets smaller there becomes a point where the inlays must get smaller. With blocks this can be done with style, but with dots I'd think having smaller dots would look weird.

Just get an 8-string without inlays and you'll learn in no time. :tan:



If that's not challenging enough, get one that's fretless:



Source: https://www.kieselguitars.com/guitargallery/dc800

Oh, and if you look at the specs, that last one has no frets, no inlays, AND no side markers.

GAD said:

I would also think it's difficult (and thus more expensive) to put inlays in the ever diminishing space between the frets as the fretboard goes higher, o that could be why the Nightbird has inlays on the higher-frets. Additionally, as the space between frets gets smaller there becomes a point where the inlays must get smaller. With blocks this can be done with style, but with dots I'd think having smaller dots would look weird.

Click to expand...

I was wondering about that yesterday, but as you noted the Nightbirds had 'em virtually "all the way up".
BUT:
On page 8 of Guild Gallery #1 is a photo of some fretboards waiting to be glued to D55 necks.
A couple of 'em clearly have their inlays in place but have not been fretted yet.
I suspect a similar practice was used for electrics simply because it would probably be easier to put the inlays in the board before cutting the frets slots, and then gluing it to the neck as shown in that article "The Construction of a D55".
It also occurs to me that perhaps they have to be installed before the frets, as the board's most likely planed for radius before frets are installed, and that would insure the inlays are flush with the surface.
After realizing that, I'm now pretty sure it IS a combination of cost and aesthetics, but the cost is in materials and intitial mounting labor into the fretboard.
As far as aesthetics I'm still in the school of "There's no bling like Guild Bling".
:tranquillity:

You always put the inlays in before the frets, but usually after cutting the fret slots.

As far as looking, I find that I'm a better typist if I don't think about it in the same way that thinking too much about what you're playing tends to throw your timing off. Looking doesn't hurt so long as I don't get in my head, if you know what I mean.

I don't mean it's more difficult because of the frets - I mean it's more difficult because of the smaller space. The inlays themselves are smaller and thus more delicate. The design of them (assuming blocks) is different as the space gets smaller, and so-on.