Cannot get harness out of NS Starfire I bass. Tips? Tricks?

SFIV1967

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Quick question: Did the guitar come like this from the factory with the shielding paint removed around that opening or is this result of your first work in getting the pots out there? I am just curious why the paint is removed there as it would mean the opening was cut/widened after the original finishing/painting the shielding paint.

39737139112_6a9c01d421_n.jpg


Ralf
 

lungimsam

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The shielding paint came factory like that in the pup pocket around that barn door.

BTW, I can fit a bare CTS pot easily thru the upper bout f-hole (wrong side of bass for my needs), but not the lower f-hole (the one needed for the installation).
Won't fit thru barn door, either.
 

adorshki

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Is it possible they finished the individual pieces of the wood body first, then glued them together, then put on the binding, but then they would have made an unfixable instrument. Weird.
That would not surprise me at all, because labor is normally the single biggest cost of manufacture.
Also, those are poly finished, so he issue of needing to build the body for finishing before installing the harness (as Ralf described) may not apply.
Also, how else would they get the harness hold-downs such found in the Starfires attached UNLESS they wired the top first and then pulled the tail into the cavity later?
I didn't say that yesterday because Ralf is normally much better schooled in electrics than me, but now I think you're right.
May be time for the Dremel to carefully widen the barn door in the pup cavity. But I will hold off on that until I hear conclusively from Guild.
You can do it.
:friendly_wink:
Also I've never heard about any particular toxicity issues with shielding paint.
I'd wear a mask to protect from dust if you were removing it from inside the cavity with the dremel, and use it in well-ventilated area if re-applying when finished.
And it tastes lousy on crackers so I can save you the experiment there, too.
More insights about shielding here:
http://www.tdpri.com/threads/amazed-at-results-of-shielding-paint.556938/
 

SFIV1967

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The shielding paint came factory like that in the pup pocket around that barn door.
Which also means it was sprayed with shielding paint BEFORE they cut the opening into the pickup cavity or they had to enlarge it for unknown reasons after it was painted! Because that opening has the color removed! What does that tell us? The opening had a purpose.

Also, how else would they get the harness hold-downs such found in the Starfires attached UNLESS they wired the top first and then pulled the tail into the cavity later?
Forget that idea you have, it is so easy to attach them through the f-holes. They are simply little self adhesive pads. Honestly I never ever heard of the idea to finish and wire a guitar top and attach the top and binding afterwards and lacquer the binding afterwards...That would add significant time in the built process not save time. And why would they have sold those (during FMIC times when your bass was made)?:

s-l1600.jpg


Another (also slightly crazy) idea. Maybe there is another opening in the entire center block between the bass and trebble side? But we can speculate to death without having the instrument in our hands. Only lungimsam knows how his instrument looks like.

Ralf
 
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lungimsam

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No tie downs on this bass.
harness slides freely around inside the body.

Good observation that Korea removed some paint.
I will check for other centerblock holes.

Looks like two 500k pots are in there and two red colored .022uf chicklet shaped caps, from what I can see.
A third cap is a bumble bee looking tiny one but no values on it I can see.
Pickup uses a quick connect.
 
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SFIV1967

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Looks like two 500k pots are in there and two red colored .022uf chicklet shaped caps, from what I can see. A third cap is a bumble bee looking tiny one but no values on it I can see. Pickup uses a quick connect.
Yes, two 500k Audio pots. I am not sure both caps are 0.022. The one between tone and volume pot is .02 but the one on the Volume pot is maybe a .002 !
This "third cap Bumble bee looking" is not a cap but a resistor! It is in parallel with the .002 cap on the volume pot as "treble bleed". This mod will help retain the high frequencies that are lost when the volume setting is reduced. By adding the resistor in parallel, a small amount of ALL frequencies are allowed to bypass the volume pot along with the high frequencies that bled through the capacitor. This is done to prevent the tone from becoming too thin in reduced volume settings.

WIRING_MOD_VT004__34489.1471893163.1280.1280.jpg
colours.gif




It should be a 100k ohms resistor, the colors of the 4 rings would be Brown, Black, Yellow, Gold.
Now in your photo it looks more like Brown, Black, Orange, Gold ? That would make it only a 1 0 000 = 10kohms +/-5% resistor. 10k ohms would be pretty low for such resistor.

Anyway, just wanted to let you know.

Ralf
 
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lungimsam

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The Guild service guys were nice enough to send me pics of proper orientation to get pots out.
It is post comes out first, then turn post pointed down to the ground and their pot body comes right out in their pics.
The pics were of them removing pots from an SFII and their f-hole looks a lot bigger than mine, though their orientation seems to get me closest when I try. Though mine still doesn't come out.

They said that since [FONT=&quot]Cordoba Music Group acquired the Guild brand in 2014, my SF-I would've been made before they acquired the brand and most likely had slightly different specs.
[/FONT]

So, with their orientation, there is about 1mm of material along the interior edge of the f-hole still blocking my pots. So I will file that off, as it won't be able to be seen from the outside afterwards. If that still don't work, then I will Dremel the barn door in the pup cavity and that will be that.
 

GAD

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The Guild service guys were nice enough to send me pics of proper orientation to get pots out.
It is post comes out first, then turn post pointed down to the ground and their pot body comes right out in their pics.
The pics were of them removing pots from an SFII and their f-hole looks a lot bigger than mine, though their orientation seems to get me closest when I try. Though mine still doesn't come out.

They said that since Cordoba Music Group acquired the Guild brand in 2014, my SF-I would've been made before they acquired the brand and most likely had slightly different specs.

So, with their orientation, there is about 1mm of material along the interior edge of the f-hole still blocking my pots. So I will file that off, as it won't be able to be seen from the outside afterwards. If that still don't work, then I will Dremel the barn door in the pup cavity and that will be that.

I would attack the "barn door" first. Poly can chip and if you're not careful or even if you are, you may cause cosmetic damage that you'll regret by messing with the f-hole.
 

GAD

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Honestly, I admire your patience. I'm a patient man, but I'd be eyeing the sawzall by now. :numbness:
 

lungimsam

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Filing the underside of f-hole is not going to work without having to file too much so looks like the Dremel is coming out to widen the barn door.
Tried hand filing the barn door but after 100's of strokes it is just taking too long.
I will be glad when I get it widened enough so everything passes easily thru.
 

SFIV1967

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It should be a 100k ohms resistor, the colors of the 4 rings would be Brown, Black, Yellow, Gold.
Now in your photo it looks more like Brown, Black, Orange, Gold ? That would make it only a 1 0 000 = 10kohms +/-5% resistor. 10k ohms would be pretty low for such resistor.
Quick update on the resistor. I heard from somebody else that Guild indeed used only a 10k ohms resistor for the treble bleeed circuit. So the colors on that resistor are indeed correct with Brown, Black, Orange, Gold - which is 10,000 ohms. The schematics for the NS bass however showed 100k as I heard...
Ralf
 

lungimsam

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Flikr album of bass here with closer pics of harness and before/after filing barn door.
I thought about finishing barn door better so it looked smoother, but no-one will see it and less material removed is better.

https://flic.kr/s/aHskAxzJMp

Next step is to wire up new harness and install.
 

SFIV1967

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Cool shot of the inside! Thanks for the follow up.
But we will never really solve the ridddle how the harness came into the bass in the firstplace and what purpose the "barn door" had if the pots didn't fit through...
Ralf
 

lungimsam

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Would make for a cool house design!!
I will update whenever I get around to getting the harness done. Aquarium airline tubing should arrive tomorrow.
Yes, we cannot know how they assembled it. Too bad they don't have pre-Cordoba factory tours showing how they did it.
Others can let us know how well theirs come out when the time comes.
 
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lungimsam

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UPDATE:
Finally got around to wiring up the all new harness.
First try was with vintage style pushback wiring. Tested it outside the bass with pup attached by quick connect and bridge ground connected but it was too noisy.

So I just de-soldered everything and rewired the whole harness again but this time with all shielded copper wiring - much better! I tested it outside the body again with pup and bridge ground attached.
Only non-shielded wiring are pup leads and cap legs.
Will install harness into bass and report back with final verdict. I hope it will sound good.
Might copper shield the pup cavity while I am at it.
I'm gonna use aquarium airline tubing to snake the pots and jack into their mounting holes. Hopefully easy now that I got the barn door widened sufficiently.
I am glad this bass only has one pickup.
 
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