How different are a NH and Westerly D55, reall?

TBK711

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Hey guys - just contemplating things as GAS takes deep hold ... I am loving my “new” Westerly D55, and thinking about where to focus next. Part of me thinks I should look at a D50ce - it seems from what I read the D50’s compete in tone with the D55’s just a bit less bling. And it would be cool to have that in a cutaway - I do like cutaways - and having electronics is always nice for my purposes.

... or maybe a 12 string or an F50r or maybe something maple or mahogany ... I don’t know ..

But, then, part of me is thinking that maybe I am missing out by not having a NH D55. Now granted, that isn’t a short term goal - would require saving in the guitar fund account; BUT I can’t get out of my head the thought that a NH and a Westerly are fundamentally different guitars. Different bracing, different weights, different eras. Both great guitars, but different (which would mean I might like both!)

But here’s the thing - I have never been in the same room with a D55 from NH! My opinion is based on zero first hand knowledge, so I am turning to my new friends the LTG guild experts ... is a NH D55 a starkly different guitar than my 1999 Westerly. Tonally do you find them to be considerably different? Or would I just be buying the same guitar except with open back tuners?

.... where would you target your GAS energies if you were me and you realized that one guild is not enough for any man.
 

chazmo

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TBK, honestly, I think that's kind of the wrong question.

What you really need to do is compare the D-55 to D-50 models from various eras. There were bracing and even soundboard material changes over the years. You will find they sound different from each other. The situation is analogous, in my opinion, to different variants of the Martin 28 series. If you've ever sat down with the D, HD, and HD-V models, you'll know what I'm talking about.

That all said, if you start considering F-50 and 12-strings, you're opening up yourself to a very broad spectrum of (truly wonderful) guitars. This is the best way to approach it, in my opinion. Some of these are gonna' blow your socks off. Some not. Oh, and you should consider DVs as well! I only have experience with the modern (Tacoma- and MIM versions), but those DV-4 and -6 models had a character of their own.

In most general terms, and I stress that these are not legitimate in the singular case, the D-55 model is a more well-balanced (tone-wise) instrument, string-to-string, than the D-50. Don't get me wrong, I prefer the D-50! It's just what you like. The D-50 (again, in most cases) is a boomier axe than the D-55.

Anyway, good luck in the hunt. What I will say is that there are no "bad" periods to worry about in either/any Guild facility. There was some junk released from Tacoma at the end of their lifetime there, but that's not what we're talking about here.
 

Cougar

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.... where would you target your GAS energies if you were me...

... or maybe a 12 string or an F50r...

Yes, both of these. :tiger: I haven't played the Guild dreads, and I'm biased, but IMO the NH F50R is the ultimate 6-string.


f50r557.jpg
 

fronobulax

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... or maybe a 12 string or an F50r or maybe something maple or mahogany ... I don’t know ..

Mrs. Fro. was quite content with her D-25, F-30 Traditional (NH) and her Mark IV. Then default stopped by to visit on a trip farther south. He just happened to leave a D-25-12 he was selling, in spite of Mrs. Fro's insistence that she was not interested. He stopped by on the way back and left with a check. The 12 is now her go to instrument. Tread carefully on that path to a Guild 12 because you will almost certainly end up with one. The only question is which one.
 

Westerly Wood

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well, if you already have a D55, why bother with a D50? why not just put a K&K mini into the D55 and call it a day?

D40 sounds nice. rather complimentary dread to the D55.

Oh, a 12 string sounds nice too, if you are into duplicate redundant unnecessary extra strings :)

oh come on, that last one is funny.

of course my answer is mostly tongue in cheek, as i just bought an old D35 which tonally sounds super similar to my already D25...I will enjoy the slight increase in volume due to spruce top.
 

Stuball48

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Mrs. Fro. was quite content with her D-25, F-30 Traditional (NH) and her Mark IV. Then default stopped by to visit on a trip farther south. He just happened to leave a D-25-12 he was selling, in spite of Mrs. Fro's insistence that she was not interested. He stopped by on the way back and left with a check. The 12 is now her go to instrument. Tread carefully on that path to a Guild 12 because you will almost certainly end up with one. The only question is which one.
Just from the, thoughful, way Mrs. Fro's playing is mentioned by you, I am thinking she is a darn good player.
 

fronobulax

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Just from the, thoughful, way Mrs. Fro's playing is mentioned by you, I am thinking she is a darn good player.

Actually she does not think of herself as a good player and often says her instruments are better than she is. But the organist/choirmaster at church much prefers that she join him on guitar or that she accompany the choir alone. Since she is directing the childern's choir, she has always gone to guitar to "change things up". Indeed much of my public playing is backing her up. I remain amused because ergonomically the D-25 is her least favorite guitar but it was her choice for unamplified accompanying. But she fell in love with both the 12 string sound and the challenge of playing it, so here we are.
 

SFIV1967

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...the D-55 model is a more well-balanced (tone-wise) instrument, string-to-string, than the D-50. Don't get me wrong, I prefer the D-50! It's just what you like. The D-50 (again, in most cases) is a boomier axe than the D-55.
That was exactly what I thought. Some years back I played a NH D-55 against a NH D-50 in a store and I much preferred the D-50 in that case. It just sounded fuller, louder and more interesting to me. The D-55 is a very elegant instrument in terms of look and tone however. I have to say that I have no Guild Dreadnought currently as I have a Martin CS D28 (Madagascar RW), which fully satisfies my needs for a Dreadnought. A guitar I liked very much when I played her at NAMM 2013 is one of the Guild Orpheum slope shoulders: https://guildguitars.com/g/14-fret-slope-shoulder-rs/ But it's hard to find them.
Ralf
 

adorshki

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But, then, part of me is thinking that maybe I am missing out by not having a NH D55. Now granted, that isn’t a short term goal - would require saving in the guitar fund account; BUT I can’t get out of my head the thought that a NH and a Westerly are fundamentally different guitars. Different bracing, different weights, different eras. Both great guitars, but different (which would mean I might like both!)
To answer the specific question, NH re-engineered the entire guitar and top radius might have been the most important change, allowing use of .013-.056 mediums, a change from the .012-.053 lights Guild had spec'd on 'em (indeed, ALL dreads) since at least '97..
That in itself would have driven bracing re-design and braces had already gone to adi in Tacoma, even under sitka tops, something that was also never done in Westerly.
(That we've ever seen evidence of, anyway.)
So there are at least 2 concrete build differences between Westerly and NH, just sayin', and those 2're significant.
And yes you could get a D50ce from NH, but can't even recall if Westerly ever offered one or the same thing by another name, so it'd be pretty rare.
But here’s the thing - I have never been in the same room with a D55 from NH! My opinion is based on zero first hand knowledge, so I am turning to my new friends the LTG guild experts ... is a NH D55 a starkly different guitar than my 1999 Westerly. Tonally do you find them to be considerably different?
Can't answer that myself but now you know some concrete build difference details.
And oh, yes, originally in 1963 the D55 WAS a D50 with an F50 neck special ordered by Tommy Smothers, and in fact labeled "D50 Special".
It got its own model name in '68 after appearing on the Smothers Brothers TV show but was still special order only until '74
But they did wind up evolving and having subtle spec differences like bracing and 3-pc vs solid necks over time, such that observations have been made here that D50 was a more "in your face" type instrument (living up to its original "Bluegrass Special" name?) while D55 was more refined, as in what Tommy Smothers would have wanted for vocal accompaniment.
Chaz and Ralf's (SFIV1967) input echo similar observations made here and in independent magazine reviews over the years, too.
One thing we've discussed before is that no matter where the guitars were built Guild somehow managed to preserve a certain "Guild" sound, and with D55's in particular that "refined" element seems to have been preserved as well.
So my vote'd be yeah get an NH for a tangibly different tone and look for a D50ce for an even greater difference and that ce you're thinking about.
:friendly_wink:
 
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Bonneville88

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The Oxnard D55 I tried last year was a great sounding guitar - every bit as good and perhaps better
than several NH & Westerly D55s I owned (and a Westerly D50) - but as I've posted before, none of
the Guild Rosewood dreads had a sound that was a compelling enough for me to keep.
I'm a hog and maple dude, I guess.
 
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chazmo

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That was exactly what I thought. Some years back I played a NH D-55 against a NH D-50 in a store and I much preferred the D-50 in that case. It just sounded fuller, louder and more interesting to me. The D-55 is a very elegant instrument in terms of look and tone however. I have to say that I have no Guild Dreadnought currently as I have a Martin CS D28 (Madagascar RW), which fully satisfies my needs for a Dreadnought. A guitar I liked very much when I played her at NAMM 2013 is one of the Guild Orpheum slope shoulders: https://guildguitars.com/g/14-fret-slope-shoulder-rs/ But it's hard to find them.
Ralf

Oh, that Martin sounds lovely, Ralf! I've always wanted to play one of those! Madi rosewood looks spectacular!
 

SFIV1967

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Oh, that Martin sounds lovely, Ralf! I've always wanted to play one of those! Madi rosewood looks spectacular!
It was a limited edition for Guitar Center in 2011. 100 pcs made. It has an Italian Alpine Spruce top, characteristics are very similiar to red spruce. The trees grow very slowly at such high elevations that the annual rings are generally closely and evenly spaced. The Madagascar rosewood looks nice, it has two big "eyes" on the back. But the bodies are pretty dark, so it is more a normal dark Rosewood look and not a presentation piece like some Taylors are.
Ralf
 

TBK711

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Really great reading guys. Thanks for the opinions. So, it sounds like D55s from NH and Westerly are quite different instruments and may warrant “needing” both. Both great guitars but are in fact rather different.

Also convinced that I need to find a D50 and an F50 to play at some point to make a more informed decision. I know that I love D55s because that’s what I’ve played - maybe I would like these others even more!

... in the end, I just gotta figure out a way/place to play more Guilds.
 

Bonneville88

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Second that the Westerly and NH D55s, at least the ones I had, were indeed different - NH was better!
 

txbumper57

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As someone who owns a few D55's from different periods let me say the Body shapes were also different between Westerly and New Hartford even if ever so slightly. Neck profiles are different, Nut width as well. Top radius was mentioned earlier. Internal bracing design and materials, overall weight of the build, thickness of the top, back, and sides, Hardware, etc.. Honestly the only thing that is the same on them is that they used Spruce for the top, Rosewood for the back and sides, and similar materials for the inlays.

There were even a few models that had different spruce and rosewood over the years. I have a 2003 50th anniversary D55 from Corona that has a 5A Engelmann spruce top and Brazilian RW back and sides. I also have a 2014 1 of 3 New Hartford D55RS with an Adirondack Spruce top instead of Sitka that was made in the last weeks of production before they closed. New Hartford also made a GSR D50 limited to around 20 pieces that had an Engelmann Spruce top and Cocobolo back and sides of which a few members here including myself are lucky enough to own. D50's are great guitars in their own right as well but definitely different than a D55.

Basically Westerly and New Hartford builds are very different guitars that at first glance appear to be similar. Still at the end of the day they are all Guilds so you really can't go wrong either way, Best of luck in your search!

Here are some pics of the GSR D50 from New Hartford with the Cocobolo back and sides.

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TX
 
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txbumper57

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And some photos of the 2003 D55 50th Anniversary as well as the 2014 D55 RS. Notice how you can see the differences in the body shape itself.

2013 D55 50th

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2014 D55RS with Adirondack Spruce Top

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TX
 
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TBK711

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My goodness those are beautiful guitars!! Thanks for posting the pics!!
 
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