D 55-12

richardp69

Enlightened Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Messages
6,007
Reaction score
5,965
Location
Barton City, Michigan
Recently I posted about a one off (I think) D 55 12 string I stumbled upon. Eric via Grot posted a couple pics for me. I can't find the link or I would have used it as the base for this post, so sorry.

I've been playing this guitar and am absolutely amazed at al most everything about it. Although I've never been a huge fan of 12 strings I am of this one. I also recently got my F-612 back from Tom and Dave down at Tom Jacob's shop in Florida, complete with a neck reset and fresh set up. (they did another stellar job here by the way but that shouldn't be surprising to anyone).

I will say as big and wonderful a sound as the F-612 provides, it is my humble opinion the D 55-12 is even a bit better. Not heads and shoulders better mind you but to my ear just a tad better. No plans to sell either the F-612 or the D 55-12 anytime soon. But, I like both of these so much I am likely going to sell a F-512 I had picked up. It's a great guitar as well but I think the three of them is a bit of overkill for me.. I haven't totally decided but I'm leaning that way. I guess I'll wait and see how the other gear I'm selling fares.

If any of you happen to get anywhere near Barton City, Michigan you're welcome to stop in and see what you think.
 

Westerly Wood

Venerated Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
13,323
Reaction score
6,496
Guild Total
2
it sounds awesome and very unique. so basically a D50 12 string right? dreadnought shape, rosewood back and sides?
 

richardp69

Enlightened Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Messages
6,007
Reaction score
5,965
Location
Barton City, Michigan
Actually, more a D 55-12 Wood. But either way I'd have been happy. The D 50, along with the D 40 are among my most favorite Guild models. I know many players now prefer the smaller body styles but something about those Guild Dreads and Jumbos just does it for me.
 

Westerly Wood

Venerated Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
13,323
Reaction score
6,496
Guild Total
2
Actually, more a D 55-12 Wood. But either way I'd have been happy. The D 50, along with the D 40 are among my most favorite Guild models. I know many players now prefer the smaller body styles but something about those Guild Dreads and Jumbos just does it for me.

yeah, if you are a dreadnought fan, hard to go wrong with owning a D40 and 50. I have no clue why this is not my coupling, like at all. I got side tracked with the D25 flat back for many years, and made some poor guitar decisions in haste. i had a D50 too but sold it out of stupidity. not being hard on myself here, just stating facts.
 

chazmo

Super Moderator
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
25,443
Reaction score
7,105
Location
Central Massachusetts
Richard, that's awesome.

Hey, I'd love to see pictures of this and the F-612 if you ever have a chance to post them.
 

Westerly Wood

Venerated Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
13,323
Reaction score
6,496
Guild Total
2
Richard, that's awesome.

Hey, I'd love to see pictures of this and the F-612 if you ever have a chance to post them.

only a handful of F612s made right? I know TX and Richard own two of them, maybe another on the LTG?
 

chazmo

Super Moderator
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
25,443
Reaction score
7,105
Location
Central Massachusetts
Oh, man, Richard, you have to post a photo spread of this guitar... 12-fretter, huh?! Fabulous.

Hans, Richard, do you have any information about when/where this guitar was made? Is it actually a one-off?
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,790
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
it sounds awesome and very unique. so basically a D50 12 string right? dreadnought shape, rosewood back and sides?
That woulda been a G-312.
g312.JPG


http://www.westerlyguildguitars.com/guitars/g312.html
:friendly_wink:

I gotta admit when I first saw this piece Richard's talking about I said to myself:
"What were they thinking?" (with the 12th fret join)
Because keeping scale length required bridge location much farther south on the soundboard, but I guess it worked.
y0sy4d3c4nksquvf1s8n.jpg

jsaem6bogw6c0iimvdhv.jpg

Listed here:
https://reverb.com/item/19240199-guild-d55-12-super-rare-12-string-dread

Maybe Tommy Smothers asked 'em to build it after having one of his famous recreational smokes.
 

Westerly Wood

Venerated Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
13,323
Reaction score
6,496
Guild Total
2
wow, great pics Al! Right, G312 that is the Guild 12 I want. Well, I do not really want it, but if it did want a Guild 12er, it would be the G312. no matter my shoulder pain, I just dig dreadnoughts.
 

mavuser

Enlightened Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
8,128
Reaction score
2,636
Location
New York
I own a 1980 G-312, and would put it up against any of them...accept the D-55-12-12.

there is also the Orpheum 12-fret 12-string Guilds from NH, as well
 

hansmoust

Enlightened Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
9,201
Reaction score
3,504
Location
Netherlands
Hans, Richard, do you have any information about when/where this guitar was made? Is it actually a one-off?

This guitar was on my very long list of guitars that were described to me by people who were working at Guild during the '60s, '70s and '80s.
All the information that was given to me was from memory, so what I have on file is often not complete and sometimes info turns out to be not entirely correct after coming across one of the actual instruments
In cases where the instrument was made for a specific customer or artist, it is often clear how many were made, but in various cases my sources did not remember if it was just a one-off or a small batch. In this case the serial number tells us during what period the instrument was made, which is the year 1974, but that's pretty much it. I have my doubts re. the wood species that the seller claimed the back & sides were made of, but without being able to inspect the guitar myself, there's not a whole lot that I can say about that.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 
Last edited:

chazmo

Super Moderator
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
25,443
Reaction score
7,105
Location
Central Massachusetts
This guitar was on my very long list of guitars that were described to me by people who were working at Guild during the '60s, '70s and '80s.
All the information that was given to me was from memory, so what I have on file is often not complete and sometimes info turns out to be not entirely correct after coming across one of the actual instruments
In cases where the instrument was made for a specific customer or artist, it is often clear how many were made, but in various cases my sources did not remember if it was just a one-off or a small batch. In this case the serial number tells us during what period the instrument was made, which is the year 1974, but that's pretty much it. I have my doubts re. the wood species that the seller claimed that the back & sides were made of, but without being able to inspect the guitar myself, there's not a whole lot that I can say about that.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

Thanks, Hans!!! 1974 it is. Wood species notwithstanding, that is a very unusual instrument... While we're at it, other than the recent Orpheum 12s, did Guild do other 12-fret 12-strings?
 

SFIV1967

Venerated Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
18,442
Reaction score
8,956
Location
Bavaria / Germany
Guild Total
8
I can't find the link or I would have used it as the base for this post...
Here it is: http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?198571-One-of-a-kind-guild

1675291084098.png


I have my doubts re. the wood species that the seller claimed the back & sides were made of...
It's really interesting as the wood inside and outside has a different color from "normal" rosewood.

jsaem6bogw6c0iimvdhv.jpg
gbnjgkl9pdyrkjv5aaj5.jpg



It has a certain Granadillo (Platymiscium yucatanum) look to it at least, but was Granadillo used in 1974? Taylor and other builders use it today.

CL011215A-Granadillo-Guitar-Tonewood-1.jpg


OM011215B-Granadillo-Guitar-Tonewood-3.jpg


Ralf
 
Last edited:

mavuser

Enlightened Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
8,128
Reaction score
2,636
Location
New York
my guess is rosewood, just not what we typically see on Guilds. just a guess of course
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,790
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
my guess is rosewood, just not what we typically see on Guilds. just a guess of course
I note the original listing says "grenadillo" which seems like a mash-up of grenadilla and granadillo, but each spelling seems to yield slightly different definitions, with overlap around rosewoods.
I'm getting Granadillo is used for 4 different plants on Wiki, but the most likely seems to be the Dalbergia (rosewood family)=Cocobolo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granadillo
But doesn't cocobolo have that reputation for being really nasty to work?:
"Oil content[edit]
Cocobolo heartwood contains oil, which lends a strong, unmistakable floral odor even to well seasoned wood and occasionally stains the hands with prolonged exposure. The high natural oil content of the wood makes it difficult to achieve a strong glue joint, as in applying veneers or guitar fingerboards, and can inhibit the curing of some varnishes, particularly oil-based finishes. Acetone may be used to remove surface oils before gluing.[1] The oil can induce allergic reactions if inhaled or exposed to unprotected skin and eyes. A dust collection system, coupled with the use of personal protective equipment such as respirators, is highly recommended when machining this wood."


When I google Ralf's ID of "platymiscium yucatanum" I get links to other Dalbergias, and I see a "What is grenadillo?" q&a:
"Grenadilla is a member of the rosewood family (Dalbergia Melanoxylon) and has been used for instrument making for centuries. Also known as African Blackwood, Grenadilla is a tremendously strong wood, making it very durable and less susceptible to cracks."
Either way it seems likely it's some kind of rosewood.
Wiki's D. Melanoxylon page seems to describe the look on that back to a "T":
"It is generally cut into small billets or logs with its sharply demarcated bright yellow-white sapwood left on to assist in the slow drying so as to prevent cracks developing. Good quality "A" grade African blackwood commands high prices on the commercial timber market. The timber is used mainly because of its machinability, density, dimensional stability, and moisture repellence. Those properties are particularly valued when used in woodwind instruments, principally clarinets, oboes, transverse flutes, piccolos, recorders, Highland pipes, and Northumbrian pipes.[3][unreliable source?] Deering Banjo Company uses blackwood ("grenadilla") to construct the tone ring in its John Hartford model banjo. Deering indicates that this reduces weight versus brass/bronze tone rings, and that the wood "plays in" (improves in tone) with use."
That one seems to make the most sense, but one's gotta wonder how the seller made the ID and why Hans was skeptical.
I'm wondering if they might have intended to build some classicals with it.
I tell ya, if it wasn't ordered by Tommy Smothers to play "La Cucaracha", then it must have been custom-ordered by a mariachi band:
DSCN0497_zps6hjo56zx.jpg

Joking aside, it occurs to me that by '73-'74 we were seeing the last of those mixed Braz/EIR D50's.
Maybe this was the result of a search for alternatives to Braz, for whatever reason?
 
Last edited:

awagner

Senior Member
Platinum Supporting
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Messages
1,722
Reaction score
2,106
Location
Westchester, NY
Guild Total
40
I have my doubts re. the wood species that the seller claimed the back & sides were made of, but without being able to inspect the guitar myself, there's not a whole lot that I can say about that.

Perhaps the wood species could be identified through DNA testing. Richard, send a sample to "23 and Tree."
 
Top