Question on Blusebird from 90s compared to NS Bluesbird

PittPastor

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My question goes to playability, not tone.

I read GAD's reviews of both. On the NS Bluesbird, he mentions:

The neck is very comfortable for my large hands. The neck at the nut measures right around the 1 11/16″ mark, as advertised and is not too thin and not too thick. The guitar has a 12″ fretboard radius which is a bit more curved than what appears to be about a 16″ radius on my 1997 Bluesbird.

Unfortunately, my left hand is very picky about the neck it lets me play. I had to take back a Martin with a performance V-Neck, and the MIM 1 3/4" archos I have is unplayable by me. They both hurt my hand to play for any length of time.

I can play my D40C 1 11/16" neck, but Guild marketing calls the neck a "C" shape. How does this compare? I was thinking that a bluesbird would have a flatter radius, but 12" radius is what I have on my D40C. So would these two guitars (i.e. the NS Bluesbird and the D40C) feel the same to my hand?

Can anyone compare the feel and playability of a 1990-something bluesbird vs a NS bluesbird? For some reason I have this thought that "flatter is faster" but I know that is an over-simplification.

Point is, if I am going to ask my GC to get one in to try it, I would hate to go after the wrong one.

Thx.
 

kakerlak

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I've only noticed two real differences radius can make:

Really round boards, like 7.25" Fenders can cause bent notes to fret out, mainly just on the high E, and may necessitate some compromise b/w action and playing range.

The other difference is dependent on finger shape/size/joint locations and how they hit the board in barre chords. I've found I sometimes get dead/muted notes on the 2nd string when barring across particularly flat boards.

I have RA and I've noticed that really big necks tend to feel fantastic in playing lead, but make my hands cramp up pretty quickly if I'm playing a song that's barre chords the whole way through. OTOH, slimmer necks don't cause that barre chord fatigue, but are more tiring when playing lead. The best feeling necks for me tend to be ones in a medium-ish depth with fairly thick shoulders (a D-profile), b/c this puts basically the same thickness under the thumb when it's resting up by the top third of the neck (lead, single string work for me) as you'd have with a thicker, C/V-shaped neck and the thickness of a slighter neck when the thumb is resting right in the middle of the neck (barre chords for me).

Most of the '90s Guilds I've played have had fairly average/medium depth necks, more-or-less C-shaped -- a pretty generic, middle-of-the-road neck that's pretty comfortable if not my absolute favorite.
 

adorshki

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My question goes to playability, not tone.

I read GAD's reviews of both. On the NS Bluesbird, he mentions:
"The neck is very comfortable for my large hands. The neck at the nut measures right around the 1 11/16″ mark, as advertised and is not too thin and not too thick. The guitar has a 12″ fretboard radius which is a bit more curved than what appears to be about a 16″ radius on my 1997 Bluesbird."

I have a suspicion GAD's experiencing exactly what Kakerlak describes in terms of how neck profile affects feel, because the Winter '97-'98 Guild Gallery #1 , where the '90's Bluesbirds were introduced, specifically says:
"ALL Guild electrics feature the following: 12" fingerboard radius...."
They also show 24-3/4" scale with 1-11/16 nuts; that in itself could make a board feel ever-so-slightly flatter than one with a 1-5/8" nut as shown for the S-100.
And as Kakerlak says, a flatter radius enables a little better ease of playing scales while a rounder one makes chording easier.
Guild's 12" radius on my '96 D25 was noticeably rounder than guitars I'd owned before and I think was intended as the best compromise between the 2 needs.
It occurs to me, I'd bet it's more likely the NS model is actually slightly rounder than spec, since by '97 Fender had introduced the most consistent QC program Westerly had ever seen, according to member Hideglue, who was there.
The real issue in all Westerlys though, is that every single neck was given final shaping by hand so slight variation is a given no matter how close to target template they came out.
FWIW I think I've seen more refs to "thick" (probably a "D" as K mentions) necks on those (and Corona) BB's than any other model from the same era except maybe Blues '90's which you might also want to consider.
Same basic guitar less a bit of bling and fitted with P90's.
Unfortunately, my left hand is very picky about the neck it lets me play. I had to take back a Martin with a performance V-Neck, and the MIM 1 3/4" archos I have is unplayable by me. They both hurt my hand to play for any length of time.

I can play my D40C 1 11/16" neck, but Guild marketing calls the neck a "C" shape. How does this compare? I was thinking that a bluesbird would have a flatter radius, but 12" radius is what I have on my D40C. So would these two guitars (i.e. the NS Bluesbird and the D40C) feel the same to my hand?
First off let me point out the 24-3/4" scale on the BB is gonna feel a whole lot easer to play than the Archos' or D40's 25-5/8 no matter what, and that 12" radius is gonna feel noticeably flatter than your A-150 which just surprised me showing a 9-1/2"(!) radius. (and which further confirm my suspicion that GAD's NS BB actually had a bit rounder board than spec'd)
I have absolutely zilch experience with NS street, but I can say your D40 neck sounds exactly like my Corona D40 neck and for the first few years I couldn't understand why it actually felt like it had stiffer action than my D25 even though all the specs including fretboard radius, strings, and action height were the same.
Finally one night I noticed: the neck was noticeably thicker.
Actually as I've aged it feels a lot better now, especially for scale higher up he neck, but what I'm really leading up to is that I think odds are good a '90's-'00's BB is gonna work if an NS doesn't.
And I wouldn't feel bad asking 'em to bring in one of those to try out.
 
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GAD

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What feels "easier to play" really depends on what a player is used to playing, IMO.

As for the OP's question, I no longer have the NS Bluesbird, but I do have measurements of four other NS guitars, and they are all .80-.05" deep at the first fret and 1 11/16" or ever so slightly wider at the nut.

Surprisingly I don't have measurements for my Westerly Bluesbird, but I still have it so I can measure, which I will try and do a bit later.

I can tell you that my Corona Custom Shop Bluesbird-90 measures .84" deep at the first fret and a full 1 3/4" wide at the nut. I can all but guarantee that the Westerly is closer to 1 11/16".
 

kakerlak

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IIRC, GC lets you have used gear shipped from one store to a local one with a soft commitment to buy. You might wait for an appealing used '90s-'00s Bluesbird to show up in their inventory and see about getting it over to your local store. If you like red, this one is probably a fair deal at just under $1k: https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Guild/Bluesbird-Solid-Body-Electric-Guitar-114902918.gc

It looks pretty clean and says it comes w/ a case.

And yeah, necks can be somewhat variable, but I'm not sure I've seen anybody ever claim one was super huge (like pushing a full inch deep at the nut) or shredder thin. I suspect the vast majority of them will be .8XX" at the nut and high .8s/low .9s at the 12th and generally round-ish.

I'd be on the lookout for a USA one with an aim to keep it at/under $1k, depending on top and condition.
 

GAD

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IIRC, GC lets you have used gear shipped from one store to a local one with a soft commitment to buy. You might wait for an appealing used '90s-'00s Bluesbird to show up in their inventory and see about getting it over to your local store. If you like red, this one is probably a fair deal at just under $1k: https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Guild/Bluesbird-Solid-Body-Electric-Guitar-114902918.gc

It looks pretty clean and says it comes w/ a case.

And yeah, necks can be somewhat variable, but I'm not sure I've seen anybody ever claim one was super huge (like pushing a full inch deep at the nut) or shredder thin. I suspect the vast majority of them will be .8XX" at the nut and high .8s/low .9s at the 12th and generally round-ish.

I'd be on the lookout for a USA one with an aim to keep it at/under $1k, depending on top and condition.

Don't know if you mean Guilds in general or just Bluesbirds.

FWIW I have Guilds that measure as small as .73" deep and as much as .94" deep at the first fret, but I'd agree that they tend to hover around .80-.85"
 

PittPastor

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IIRC, GC lets you have used gear shipped from one store to a local one with a soft commitment to buy. You might wait for an appealing used '90s-'00s Bluesbird to show up in their inventory and see about getting it over to your local store. If you like red, this one is probably a fair deal at just under $1k: https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Guild/Bluesbird-Solid-Body-Electric-Guitar-114902918.gc

Ha! Yep, that is exactly the one that has my eye!

I have RA and I've noticed that really big necks tend to feel fantastic in playing lead, but make my hands cramp up pretty quickly if I'm playing a song that's barre chords the whole way through. OTOH, slimmer necks don't cause that barre chord fatigue, but are more tiring when playing lead. The best feeling necks for me tend to be ones in a medium-ish depth with fairly thick shoulders (a D-profile), b/c this puts basically the same thickness under the thumb when it's resting up by the top third of the neck (lead, single string work for me) as you'd have with a thicker, C/V-shaped neck and the thickness of a slighter neck when the thumb is resting right in the middle of the neck (barre chords for me).

Thanks, that was very helpful.

Actually as I've aged it feels a lot better now, especially for scale higher up he neck, but what I'm really leading up to is that I think odds are good a '90's-'00's BB is gonna work if an NS doesn't.
And I wouldn't feel bad asking 'em to bring in one of those to try out.

That's the way I am currently leaning. Man, I wish I could just have a place to go and try these out side by side!

I can tell you that my Corona Custom Shop Bluesbird-90 measures .84" deep at the first fret and a full 1 3/4" wide at the nut. I can all but guarantee that the Westerly is closer to 1 11/16".

I'm a little confused. Is "Deep" and "Wide" the same measurement? Are you saying the width of the neck is wider on the NS but both are about the same depth?
 

PittPastor

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This is a fun read.

He starts out not liking it. Goes back and plays it some more. Ends up buying it. IDK if Dennis is on this forum, but what a fun blog. Very open and honest.

https://diaryofdennis.com/2018/03/25/guild-bluesbird-newark-st-collection-iced-tea-burst/

https://diaryofdennis.com/2018/04/04/love-at-third-sight-the-bluesbird/

Playing it to a bemused Cat

https://diaryofdennis.com/2018/04/04/practicing-with-my-new-guitar/

And more playing

https://diaryofdennis.com/2018/05/10/having-a-good-time-with-the-cat-and-guitar/
 

GAD

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Added this image, which should help:



Fretboard-Radius-Neck-Measurerements-640x363.jpg
 

Hobbesickles

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Just to chime in on the varies neck depths... I've had a 1997 Westerly Bluesbird, 2000 Blues 90, and a 2002 Corona Bluesbird. The neck on the Blues 90 is by far the thickest followed by the Corona. I found the neck on the Westerly Bluesbird to be too thin for my taste. I wish I had some measurements to provide for you guys.

In my personal opinion I think the 2002 Corona Bluesbird has the best fit and finish and the best feeling neck out of the others. The other two are still outstanding guitars, especially for the prices these go for! I really like the feel of a 12" radius on the fret board for these guitars.
 

DThomasC

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I have a Westerly Blues90 and a Corona Bluesbird P-90. The Blues90 has the second fattest neck of any guitar I own. The Bluesbird P-90 id the fattest. But, I've heard that the Blues90 has a deliberately chunkier neck than the humbucker equipped Bluesbirds.
 

PittPastor

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I have a Westerly Blues90 and a Corona Bluesbird P-90. The Blues90 has the second fattest neck of any guitar I own. The Bluesbird P-90 id the fattest. But, I've heard that the Blues90 has a deliberately chunkier neck than the humbucker equipped Bluesbirds.

Deliberately chunkier, eh? Hmmm... Now more than ever I wish I coudl find a place I could play and compare.

In my personal opinion I think the 2002 Corona Bluesbird has the best fit and finish and the best feeling neck out of the others. The other two are still outstanding guitars, especially for the prices these go for! I really like the feel of a 12" radius on the fret board for these guitars.

That is good to know. Thx!
 

GAD

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Here you go:


1997 Bluesbird:

Guild-1997-Bluesbird-NEck-Measurements.png


The '97 Bluesbird measures 1 3/4" wide at the first fret.



2002 Corona Bluesbird-90:

Guild-2002-Bluesbird-90-NeckMeasurements.png



Sadly I did not measure my NS Bluesbird in any detail before I sold it, but I can tell you that the four other NS guitars I have all measure very similarly, so I'd expect that the Bluesbird is close as well. Here's my 2016 NS SFIII measurement for comparison. I think the Bluesbird may have a 10" or 12" radius, but the neck depths and widths are all within .05" of each other on the four NS Guilds:

Guild-NS-SFIII-NeckMeasurements-1.png
 

adorshki

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I'm surprised by the 9.5" radius on the NS SFIII and the 10" radius on the 97 BB. I would have guess that they were all close to 12".
Me too, especially given what Guild said in Guild Gallery #1 (I quoted in post #3)
I'd be forced to guess that it was from an early run and so maybe used leftover SF or Polara boards?
Unless GAD screwed up when measuring the radius, but didn't wanna go there yesterday.
On the other hand the GG itself could have been wrong, as unusual as that is for Guild product lit.
But it is the same GG that shows the S-100 with rosewood pickups.
:tongue-new:
 

GAD

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Measuring radii, especially on an old guitar, is not an exact science, at least with the tools at my disposal. The difference between 9.5" and 10" is easy to miss and may absolutely be me being too tired to care when I made the measurements. Hell, the difference between 10" and 12" can be hard to miss, too, at least in my experience.
 
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