Is the back of this 1970's Guild F-50 Brazilian rosewood ?

bobouz

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So far I've not seen even a single vintage Martin(pre 1970) with a figured BRW. Perhaps there is, but not to my eyes yet ? Who knows.

Just to throw out a thought: It is my understanding that quartersawn wood will typically yield straight grain, while flatsawn can more often give a highly figured look. I would expect Martin to always go with quartersawn at that time (and they probably still do on higher end models), as it produces a stronger piece & is more desirable overall in guitar construction. This would increase the likelihood that you'd see straight grain on BRW Martins.

In the late '60s, Gibson had a few models with laminated BRW back & sides (before supplies dried up). These often were highly figured & produced some beautiful looking bodies, but they were only a thin veneer. Mid '60s & earlier Gibsons with solid BRW had straighter grain, from what I've seen, and were probably quartersawn.
 

adorshki

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Stumbled across this when looking for pics of the back of John Denver's F50 special (trying to deduce if it actually had an AA neck or just the headstock shape); ID'd as a '69 F512 and have no reason to doubt it:
MVC-592F.jpg

From here:
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=379287&page=4
Now that's what I think of when I think of Guild Braz.
:friendly_wink:

Hi, GuildFS4612CE
As to BRW(Brazilian rosewood) back & sides, actually back in the past(prior to 1970), especially Martin (I know very little of other makers like Guild) although figured grains definitely look prettier than straight grains, people wanted straight grain was not because it was "fashionable" but to get wood with high density (the higher the density, the harder they are, the longer the life of a guitar).
Jane's got a ton of experience and I consider her to be very credible.
:friendly_wink:
I've seen that same philosophy about grain as a density indicator cited when it comes to top grading, that even though the standards are cosmetic/aesthetic, it's thought that tighter grains are indicative of denser tops that can be made a bit thinner for better resonance.
In fact now bearclaw has also been claimed to be indicative of denser wood created by twisting stress.
I don't know if it's all true, seems logical enough to me, but just confirming I've seen both "arguments" and they're not necessarily mutually exclusive.
The need for protection of the remaining Brazilian Atlantic Forest has been recognised, and 35.9% now has some form of protected status. Despite the high rate of deforestation, the Atlantic Forest is still considered one of the world’s top five biodiversity hotspots. This status justifies sustained efforts to conserve the forest community and iconic species such as the Brazilian rosewood.
Right, and it's not just Braz, but in fact all the dalbergias were CITES listed effective Jan 2017 because as one species began to get over-harvested and listed, "harvesters" would just move on to the next most readily available species, so they finally decided to quit playing whack-a-mole about rosewoods and list 'em ALL.
Braz is the only one for which international trade of new harvest and finished goods is completely prohibited, though.
If you want to legally obtain a Braz rosewood guitar in another country you're gonna have to go there, buy it, and obtain the proper paperwork (where required) to transport it as personal property, where an exemption for 20lbs of weight is allowed.
You otherwise risk seizure by customs at points of exit or entry.
International shipment in a commercial transaction is strictly prohibited.
 
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GuildFS4612CE

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That's a lovely example of BRAZ, Al...thanks for finding and posting it.:congratulatory:

No matter the densities of the woods and all the arguments pro and con one thing does not change...there are two kinds of aged acoustic guitars...one's that have had a neck reset...and one's that need one...no matter what, the laws of physics and geometry...will win...so just acquire what sounds good to you...guitars, especially Guilds, are for playing.
 

awagner

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Stumbled across this when looking for pics of the back of John Denver's F50 special (trying to deduce if it actually had an AA neck or just the headstock shape); ID'd as a '69 F512 and have no reason to doubt it:
MVC-592F.jpg

From here:
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=379287&page=4
Now that's what I think of when I think of Guild Braz.

Looks very similar to mine (formerly Barbara's). Probably from the same batch.

http://letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?195098-Belated-NGD-F512&p=1786667#post1786667
 

awagner

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Yours was made a year later than the one in the photo.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

Hans, do you know the date on the '69's neck block (or its serial #)? Mine is a 1970 (#OC247), but the neck block date is from December 1969. I thought maybe they were from the same batch, but completed at different times, resulting in the difference in year designation.
 
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bdeclee

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Hans, do you know the date on the '69's neck block (or its serial #)? Mine is a 1970 (#OC247), but the neck block date is from December 1969. I thought maybe they were from the same batch, but completed at different times, resulting in the difference in year designation.

Following with interest. ��
 

gotomsdos

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Stumbled across this when looking for pics of the back of John Denver's F50 special (trying to deduce if it actually had an AA neck or just the headstock shape); ID'd as a '69 F512 and have no reason to doubt it:
MVC-592F.jpg

.
What a last BRW Guild !
 

hansmoust

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Hans, do you know the date on the '69's neck block (or its serial #)? Mine is a 1970 (#OC247), but the neck block date is from December 1969. I thought maybe they were from the same batch, but completed at different times, resulting in the difference in year designation.

You probably meant the soundboard date! I don't have it, but I do know what the serial number is. However I do not feel free to give out a serial number without the owner's permission, but I can tell you that they are too far away from each other to be from the same batch.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

awagner

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Fair enough. I guess what I was really suggesting is that the soundboards might have come from the same tree. Thanks.
 

adorshki

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Fair enough. I guess what I was really suggesting is that the soundboards might have come from the same tree. Thanks.
I think you meant the backs, but even there I don't see enough similarity to think they're from the same flitch of wood although we have heard of at least one example of 2 guitars that were, and they were visually recognizable as such, I think Chaz's F50 "Cap" was one, and the other was another F50 from the same "batch"?.
Also, IIRC Hans has explained that "batch" had a specific definition in Westerly of a group of 8 guitars of a given model, built at the same time.
It was their standard production increment.
 

hansmoust

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I think you meant the backs, but even there I don't see enough similarity to think they're from the same flitch of wood although we have heard of at least one example of 2 guitars that were, and they were visually recognizable as such, I think Chaz's F50 "Cap" was one, and the other was another F50 from the same "batch"?.
Also, IIRC Hans has explained that "batch" had a specific definition in Westerly of a group of 8 guitars of a given model, built at the same time.
It was their standard production increment.

The number that I gave was 6 or increments of that, but I'm getting used to you remembering something different from what I've said.

For the readers/members that have not been here all that long, here's a link to a thread I posted 10 years ago that they might enjoy:

http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?153345-Laminated-rosewood-backs-on-60s-Guilds

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 
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