Looking For A Smaller Guild

My right shoulder was replaced last October. My left shoulder has a lot of pain when I play a full length scale Dred.
When I play my Resonator guitar or my GA size Washburn, the pain is significantly less.

I don't want a small guitar. Never liked the way they sound.
I do play with a strap which helps a lot but the full length fret boards are what I want to get away from.
Perhaps a short scale Dred or GA size will fit my needs.

I have a great sounding Yamaha L series guitar that I have lowered the tuning down to D to D.
I play it with a capo on the second fret and the shorter scale feels a lot better on my shoulders.
However I don't like the loose/sloppy feel that the strings now have.

Yes, I'm being hard to please, I know.

Taylor Martin Guild said:

My right shoulder was replaced last October. My left shoulder has a lot of pain when I play a full length scale Dred.
When I play my Resonator guitar or my GA size Washburn, the pain is significantly less.

I don't want a small guitar. Never liked the way they sound.
I do play with a strap which helps a lot but the full length fret boards are what I want to get away from.
Perhaps a short scale Dred or GA size will fit my needs.

I have a great sounding Yamaha L series guitar that I have lowered the tuning down to D to D.
I play it with a capo on the second fret and the shorter scale feels a lot better on my shoulders.
However I don't like the loose/sloppy feel that the strings now have.

Yes, I'm being hard to please, I know.

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I've only ever seen one short-scale dread from Guild, the D47ce:
https://reverb.com/item/1939382-guild-d-47-ce-nt-1983-natural

Note the dual dots on the 24th fret are a dead giveaway of a 24-3/4" neck.
That fretboard wasn't standard on all shortscale necks, but was only available with that scale length.
I'm thinking maybe it's so uncommon because it's not as compatible as 25+" scales with a dread's primary role of producing volume?
So suspect your chances are a lot better with GA and concert size bodies.
Now if we could only convince Oxnard that Mose Allison's "old men who got all the money" want a shortscale GA we'd be a lot closer to achieving peace on earth and good will towards all men.
You think you're being hard to please?
I will never rest until Guild revives the one true F40 and offers a shortscale option for it.
I will ceaselessly lobby for this goal until I drop dead or they see the error of their ways and reclaim the GA crown they so remorselessly abandoned, nay, even trampled in the dirt with their blasphemous rechristening of the F48 as the F40.
And I will task my heirs with carrying on the good fight until our clan is decimated or Oxnard has sold the brand to new owners who will in turn feel the brunt of my and my heirs' unflagging dedication to our cause.

I have spoken and I am out of breath.

Taylor Martin Guild said:

My right shoulder was replaced last October. My left shoulder has a lot of pain when I play a full length scale Dred.
When I play my Resonator guitar or my GA size Washburn, the pain is significantly less.

I don't want a small guitar. Never liked the way they sound.
I do play with a strap which helps a lot but the full length fret boards are what I want to get away from.
Perhaps a short scale Dred or GA size will fit my needs.

I have a great sounding Yamaha L series guitar that I have lowered the tuning down to D to D.
I play it with a capo on the second fret and the shorter scale feels a lot better on my shoulders.
However I don't like the loose/sloppy feel that the strings now have.

Yes, I'm being hard to please, I know.

Click to expand...

Have you considered a Gibson J185? 16" lower bout, dreadnought depth, and short scale. I've played a couple that I thought were great guitars (if you like maple), and it might be worth playing one (or more) to see if you like them.

I’m a chiropractor, and the stiffness and tenseness between the shoulder blades is something that chiropractic care can help you with. It’s a very common problem for guitar players to experience that because of the posture that you have to assume in order to play.

Butch said:

I’m a chiropractor, and the stiffness and tenseness between the shoulder blades is something that chiropractic care can help you with. It’s a very common problem for guitar players to experience that because of the posture that you have to assume in order to play.

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I'm familiar with chiropractic, and have used it, don't have a problem with it, can even crack my own back up there, but I play in classical position which is as ergonomically correct as you can get with a guitar.
Not one of those couch or "over the wrong leg" players.
In fact, what the heck, I just re-set my avatar to demonstrate.
It's not a spinal alignment problem, it's the size of the guitar, the extra stretch needed to reach around the body (And I'm only 5'8).
Wasn't a problem in my 40's but I just turned 63.
No problem with the F65ce which has a different outline and shallower body.
Thee conventional wisdom is that the narrower waist of an "F-body" allows it to ride a little lower on the leg, making it a little easier to play, and that's borne out in my experience.
:friendly_wink:

twocorgis said:

Have you considered a Gibson J185? 16" lower bout, dreadnought depth, and short scale. I've played a couple that I thought were great guitars (if you like maple), and it might be worth playing one (or more) to see if you like them.

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I will second that opinion in a heartbeat. I own a 2012 J-185 that would probably be my one desert island keeper if forced to choose. Super comfortable body combined with the short-scale. If the first one doesn't float your boat, play some more - they can vary significantly, but a good one will have a balanced & percussive projection, with plenty of bass.

Also note that Gibson makes a smaller 15" body with the short-scale (CJ-165, J-165, and current Parlor model), and the vast majority of round-shoulder dreads based on the J-45 & J-50 are short-scale.

bobouz said:

I will second that opinion in a heartbeat. I own a 2012 J-185 that would probably be my one desert island keeper if forced to choose. Super comfortable body combined with the short-scale. If the first one doesn't float your boat, play some more - they can vary significantly, but a good one will have a balanced & percussive projection, with plenty of bass.

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Be aware also however that I only see 'em with 1-3/4" nuts.
I want to like 'em and could even compromise on the flatbacks (It's possible I might actually like it better), but suspect that 1.72xx nut width wouldn't work for me even if bridge pin spacing was tight to help with the "spread".
Also only see a "Vintage" version on Gibson website, at least can get a real wood fretboard that way, but yeesh the list price.
Even the used ones I see are sticker shockers, about what I want to pay for a new F47($2-2800.00; depending) when Oxnard finally figures out what they're missing out on.

adorshki said:

It's not a spinal alignment problem, it's the size of the guitar, the extra stretch needed to reach around the body. The conventional wisdom is that the narrower waist of an "F-body" allows it to ride a little lower on the leg, making it a little easier to play, and that's borne out in my experience.
:friendly_wink:

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+1. I see a chiropractor now for a separate issue. I almost always play standing, but your "F-body position" comment is spot on when I do sit. And I'm 6'3", yet the size of the guitar made all the difference. Actually, to clarify, it says 6'3" on my drivers' license, I am probably only 6'1" now - aging is a b1tch!

walrus

walrus said:

+1. I see a chiropractor now for a separate issue. I almost always play standing, but your "F-body position" comment is spot on when I do sit. And I'm 6'3", yet the size of the guitar made all the difference. Actually, to clarify, it says 6'3" on my drivers' license, I am probably only 6'1" now - aging is a b1tch!

walrus

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In retrospect I don't want to completely "dis" Butch's well-meaning suggestion (thank you Butch!) but I'm pretty darn sure that for me it really is a fatigue issue primarily because it goes away after a couple of hours or a good night's sleep as opposed to a nagging chronic condition the benefits from an adjustment.
I'm somewhat prone to spasms in the lower lumbar region which are a different animal than the "fatigue", and are due to a misalignment suddenly getting "tweaked" when I do something like straighten up too quickly after bending at the waist, but there is probably truth in his observation that the playing position itself is somewhat conducive to chronic stress issues, even the "safest" classical position.
I tend to lean over and watch the fretboard a lot, for example.
For standing electric players there's the issue that the axes themselves are kinda heavy and all that weight's hanging off one shoulder, not equally distributed, besides.
Yeah I can see that might tend to make a guy subconsciously compensate with some cramp-inducing spinal contortions.

My favorite guitars to play are my smaller ones. My Washburn EA-20 is a thin body acoustic/electric. But lacking in depth and tone. But I really love my Breedlove Oregon Concert Rogue (myrtlewood back/sides/spruce top) which is a bit deeper than my Taylor GC8 (rosewood back/sides/spruce top) which is a short scale. That's the easiest guitar to play in my small "herd" but the Breedlove isn't far behind. Shoulder injuries/replacement surgeries are the WORST!! Super hard rehab and other joints are so much easier. But no need to tax your new parts beyond their limit or level of rehab. Hence, my "no more dreads" policy. Maybe look for a concert, short scale, 12 fretter? Taylor for sure makes them and by your handle, I'd guess you're not a Taylor-phobe.......

walrus said:

+1. I see a chiropractor now for a separate issue. I almost always play standing, but your "F-body position" comment is spot on when I do sit. And I'm 6'3", yet the size of the guitar made all the difference. Actually, to clarify, it says 6'3" on my drivers' license, I am probably only 6'1" now - aging is a b1tch!

walrus

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No kidding!! I had a colonoscopy yesterday, and it's my second appointment when they've measured me and pronounced me 5'9"!! I've always been at least 5'10. My new knee should help my height, but until I get the other one done.... well, we'll see...... getting old sucks!!

davismanLV said:

No kidding!! I had a colonoscopy yesterday, and it's my second appointment when they've measured me and pronounced me 5'9"!! I've always been at least 5'10. My new knee should help my height, but until I get the other one done.... well, we'll see...... getting old sucks!!

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Wait, they're calculating your height from your colonoscopy? My doc can't do that.

Cool!

This GI doc is really nice. He did my last one in 2011. He does, like, a million of these two days a week at the surgery center. 8 years later he came over and said, "Hey Tom, I'm Dr. Tibaldi and we're gonna do a colonoscopy on you today. Last one you had was in 2011, right?

Me: Yeah, right here, you did it. <pregnant pause> What? You don't remember???

The whole surgery room staff and the doc got a kick out of it. I had one tiny polyp which they removed. Hopefully I'm safe for a while. It's not the procedure where you're unconscious, it's the PREP DAY!! My a$$hole was so sore..... but I'm okay now. So, we were talking about smaller guitars, right??

With the shoulder, I'm gonna say the DEPTH of the instrument is gonna be key for comfort. How's that for getting back on track??? irate:

gjmalcyon said:

Wait, they're calculating your height from your colonoscopy? My doc can't do that.

Cool!

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:highly_amused::highly_amused::highly_amused:nthego:nthego:

adorshki said:

Be aware also however that I only see 'em with 1-3/4" nuts.
I want to like 'em and could even compromise on the flatbacks (It's possible I might actually like it better), but suspect that 1.72xx nut width wouldn't work for me even if bridge pin spacing was tight to help with the "spread".
Also only see a "Vintage" version on Gibson website, at least can get a real wood fretboard that way, but yeesh the list price.
Even the used ones I see are sticker shockers, about what I want to pay for a new F47($2-2800.00; depending) when Oxnard finally figures out what they're missing out on.

Click to expand...

Al, the nut on my 2012 J-185 is 1-11/16”. In fact, five of my seven Montana-built acoustics (2000 to 2015) are 1-11/16, and the other two are 1/32 wider. I prefer smaller neck profiles & they all work well for me. That said, significant variations do occur, so an in-hand test drive is the only way to know for sure.

Re price, I paid $1700 for mine a few years ago (new open-box return). Our own Rich Cohen had a used one (2006 I believe) on Reverb a while back for $1499 - so more reasonable prices do come along once in a while.

I have spent some time in music shops looking for any smaller body guitar to replace my D-55.
After playing many, many guitars I found the one that sounds the best.
Yes my D-55.
I will just learn to play through the pain.
I love the tone that my D-55.
Playing while sitting on a tall stool and with a strap makes the guitar much more comfortable to play.
Standing would be best but my back won't allow that.

It sucks to get old.

Taylor Martin Guild said:

I have spent some time in music shops looking for any smaller body guitar to replace my D-55.
After playing many, many guitars I found the one that sounds the best.
Yes my D-55.
I will just learn to play through the pain.
I love the tone that my D-55.
Playing while sitting on a tall stool and with a strap makes the guitar much more comfortable to play.
Standing would be best but my back won't allow that.

It sucks to get old.

Click to expand...

Hey TMG, I know this sounds like the complete opposite of what you are trying to achieve but have you tried a F50R? My F50R's from New Hartford actually have a a more shallow depth than my D55's do and the narrow waist of the Jumbo body compared to a Dread make them much easier to play with the same shoulder issues you are mentioning. I know it sounds weird to think a Jumbo guitar would be more comfortable than a dread body but to me they actually are and I have heard similar responses from other folks in the same situation. My F50R's have plenty of bass response and the great Rosewood overtones we all love so much.

Just an off the wall suggestion to try if you get a chance, Hope it all works out for you!

TX

gjmalcyon said:

Wait, they're calculating your height from your colonoscopy? My doc can't do that.

Cool!

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Well, you know, as you, uh, "fill up", so to speak, the extra mass tends to drag the rest of you down a little bit.....
:glee:

bobouz said:

Al, the nut on my 2012 J-185 is 1-11/16”. In fact, five of my seven Montana-built acoustics (2000 to 2015) are 1-11/16, and the other two are 1/32 wider. I prefer smaller neck profiles & they all work well for me. That said, significant variations do occur, so an in-hand test drive is the only way to know for sure.

Re price, I paid $1700 for mine a few years ago (new open-box return). Our own Rich Cohen had a used one (2006 I believe) on Reverb a while back for $1499 - so more reasonable prices do come along once in a while.

Click to expand...

Thanks buddy!
I know we've batted Gibsons around a bit, I think previously it was SJ-200's, right?.
I'm still holding out for new Oxnard but nice to have a back-up plan if needed.

Taylor Martin Guild said:

It sucks to get old.

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Yeah but the alternative would be to get young and.....yeah I see what you mean.

txbumper57 said:

Hey TMG, I know this sounds like the complete opposite of what you are trying to achieve but have you tried a F50R? My F50R's from New Hartford actually have a a more shallow depth than my D55's do and the narrow waist of the Jumbo body compared to a Dread make them much easier to play with the same shoulder issues you are mentioning. I know it sounds weird to think a Jumbo guitar would be more comfortable than a dread body but to me they actually are and I have heard similar responses from other folks in the same situation. My F50R's have plenty of bass response and the great Rosewood overtones we all love so much.

Just an off the wall suggestion to try if you get a chance, Hope it all works out for you!

TX

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+1. As I said above, this is true for me. Much better than my (now seemingly huge) dread, the body style for the F-30 "fits" into my hunched over body nicely when sitting, and also "fits" into my weakening with age body while standing.

walrus