Bigsby for M75

miasmo

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I have a Newark St M-75 Aristocrat. I would like to add a Bigsby. I am trying to decide between the "Guildsby" made for the Starfire that is sold on the Guild website, a B-3, or a B-11. All things being the same, I would go for a B-11 over a B-3 just because it's a little bit lighter. Does anyone know how much the Guildsby weighs? No specs on the Guild website. Does anyone have opinions on any other factors I should consider specific to an M-75? Any info or advice is appreciated.

Thanks
 

miasmo

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Hmm... I called Guild and they recommended either a B-3 or this one:
https://shop.guildguitars.com/produ...-models-starfire-iii-ce-100d-x-175b-aluminum/

Apparently the tension bar one works too. Good to know.

Another thing the Guild guy said was that the tailpiece screw holes on the M-75 don't line up with the ones on the Starfire, so drilling new holes is required.


You need a tension bar Bigsby for an M-75. https://shop.guildguitars.com/product/vibrato-tailpiece-semi-hollowbody-newark-st-models-starfire-v-aluminum/?v=d3dcf429c679

Guy I know put the one in the link on a NS M-75, and it works great and looks the part.
 

parker_knoll

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Really? String angle looks extreme but I haven't played one. You can also get a different roller bar from Towner which lowers the tension
 

miasmo

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The neck set looks kind of shallow for the B3. You want some downward pressure, otherwise the bridge will skate sideways.
 

Walter Broes

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When I called Guild, they said that either a B-3 or the equivalent Guildsby (no tension bar) would work, but I would have to redrill holes because the screw holes don't match up for the M-75.

There is no Guild equivalent of a B3, only for a B6 and I doubt a B6 will even fit, lengthwise. Even then, a B3 would only work if you have relatively high action and a very manly string gauge. B7 or the Guild equivalent.
 

miasmo

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There is no Guild equivalent of a B3, only for a B6 and I doubt a B6 will even fit, lengthwise. Even then, a B3 would only work if you have relatively high action and a very manly string gauge. B7 or the Guild equivalent.

So this one is a B-6 equivalent? https://shop.guildguitars.com/produ...-models-starfire-iii-ce-100d-x-175b-aluminum/

It's annoying that there are no specs listed. The dude at Guild said this one would work with drilling new tailpiece screw holes. But he led me to believe a B3 would work too. Maybe he was thinking B-6.
 

Quantum Strummer

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I'd be tempted to go for the Guild version of the B6 along with a Towner Down Bar providing the break angle. I think the Towner would fit between the bridge & the Bigsby and oughta work when set fairly shallow.

-Dave-
 
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adorshki

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The dude at Guild said this one would work with drilling new tailpiece screw holes. But he led me to believe a B3 would work too. Maybe he was thinking B-6.
All the folks at Oxnard are comparatively new to Guild which was sold by Fender to CMG in 2014, and we've seen other examples of a lack of intimate familiarity with the imported models
(heck, with the domestics, too, for that matter).
To be fair since a lot of 'em were designed under Fender ownership they may never have received actual documentation/specs about 'em.
The sale was of the brand name and intellectual properties (and some production equipment), not sure if all of the off-shore built "model specs" were included as "intellectual property" in that deal.
Evidence seems to indicate they weren't.
For example, on the imported acoustic side a whole new line was introduced, built by same factory but with slightly different specs.
Bottom line:
Trust everybody who's posted here who've done actual hands-on tinkering and have owned their guitars in most cases longer than CMG's owned Guild.
:friendly_wink:
 
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Walter Broes

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miasmo

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All the folks at Oxnard are comparatively new to Guild which was sold by Fender to CMG in 2014, and we've seen other examples of a lack of intimate familiarity with the imported models
(heck, with the domestics, too, for that matter).
To be fair since a lot of 'em were designed under Fender ownership they may never have received actual documentation/specs about 'em.
The sale was of the brand name and intellectual properties (and some production equipment), not sure if all of the off-shore built "model specs" were included as "intellectual property" in that deal.
Evidence seems to indicate they weren't.
For example, on the imported acoustic side a whole new line was introduced, built by same factory but with slightly different specs.
Bottom line:
Trust everybody who's posted here who've done actual hands-on tinkering and have owned their guitars in most cases longer than CMG's owned Guild.
:friendly_wink:

Interesting. Thanks for your perspective. That makes sense.
 

adorshki

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Interesting. Thanks for your perspective. That makes sense.
Yes, I suspected as a new member you might be unaware of how the history could cause the confusing info from what would normally be considered the authoritative source.
In this case, with all the changes of manufacturing location/ownership over the last 25 years, this place is actually the best source for info now, and even we keep learning new stuff that changes our understanding of the spec histories.
CMG doesn't truly care about stuff that was made prior to their ownership, and from a cold hard business perspective that's understandable.
Their single remaining genuine connection to the past was their commitment to honor warranty of New Hartford-made product for original owners.
I can't recall if that also applied to the import lines because they were never really "on my radar" but I think the ones that were introduced during New Hartford era were covered as well, and in any case their option there is to replace a validated warranty claim piece because it's actually cheaper than trying to repair in most cases.
There was never even an in-country repair parts stock for those under Fender, so nothing to even acquire on that end, so what would they need specs for?
See what I mean?
 

dbirchett

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This is the Bigsby you want:
009-6290-100.jpg


If you want it in gold it is available too.
009-6290-200.jpg


You can get them through the Guild Store.

Note that these are very similar but not identical to the Bigsby B7 or B70.

trem_b7_l.jpg


The main structural difference is that there is a little lip in front of the spring on the B7/70 that is the right side screw to the top. The Guild version does not have that lip but screws through the spring retainer. I can't help but thing that is a better design as the forces are equidistant but I am not a physicist. (Didn't even take the class).

In any event, on my Starfire V, I didn't like the break angle nor did I like the Guildsby being as low as it was. I used some plumbers washers and elevated the two screws. That reduced the break angle and improved the action on the vibrato. Here is the original article: http://letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?180059-Bigsby-mod-for-my-Starfire-5&highlight=Bigsby+Starfire

The advantage to doing it that way is that you can cut down on the break angle. As Walter Broes aptly pointed out, the M75 is a tweener. There isn't enough break angle to use a B3 and a B7 is almost too much. He also recommended shimming a B7 after first grinding off the lip and drilling through the spring cup. Better yet, just buy a Guildsby.
 

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I had to jack up the vibrato on the DeArmond M-75t the same way, as the strings were dragging on the back of the bridge.
 

miasmo

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I'd be tempted to go for the Guild version of the B6 along with a Towner Down Bar providing the break angle. I think the Towner would fit between the bridge & the Bigsby and oughta work when set fairly shallow.

-Dave-

Would the Towner bar work with an archtop hollowbody like an M-75?
 

dbirchett

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The Towner bar works on the studs of a stop tailpiece, right? Well, there's no stop tailpiece. A B6-sized Bigsby won't fit on the M75 Aristocrat. It is too big.
 

Quantum Strummer

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The Towner bar works on the studs of a stop tailpiece, right? Well, there's no stop tailpiece. A B6-sized Bigsby won't fit on the M75 Aristocrat. It is too big.

Ah, right. I'd forgotten why I gave up on the notion of vibrato-ing my Aristocrat. Not a fan of the B7 or its Guild variant either. (And I have a B6 on-hand waiting for a suitable guitar.)

-Dave-
 
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