My review of the NEW OXNARD F55e

chazmo

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Merlin, that sounds right. At first I thought maybe it was an artifact of the manufacturing process, but I think you're right, as the block is separate from the neck itself. They have probably designed a neck block that is shareable across different models (including some bolt-ons -- or some that need soundhole truss rod access, as you suggested).
 

ClydeTower

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The hole is quite obvious and it looks like rosewood is visible at the other end, so what's the purpose of that? Likely they are using standard neck blocks and on other models the hole is used to bolt on the neck, or access the truss rod (Orpheums).

Yes, I can confirm, it is solid rosewood you see through the hole and there appears to be no function to this hole. At first, I thought it was access to the truss rod, but no.
Merlin might be right, it could be that they are using a standard neck for multiple guitars and it has the option of being bolted on. Which brings me to the question:

Which MIA Oxnard Guitar would have a bolt on neck?

Edit: It would seem more likely to be access to the truss rod on other models...
 
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chazmo

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Yes, I can confirm, it is solid rosewood you see through the hole and there appears to be no function to this hole. At first, I thought it was access to the truss rod, but no.
Merlin might be right, it could be that they are using a standard neck for multiple guitars and it has the option of being bolted on. Which brings me to the question:

Which MIA Oxnard Guitar would have a bolt on neck?

Edit: It would seem more likely to be access to the truss rod on other models...
Dangerous question, Clyde. One of the reasons a number of us are wary about CMG is based on some mealy-mouthed answers to this question last year.
 

Dondoh

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Merlin, that sounds right. At first I thought maybe it was an artifact of the manufacturing process, but I think you're right, as the block is separate from the neck itself. They have probably designed a neck block that is shareable across different models (including some bolt-ons -- or some that need soundhole truss rod access, as you suggested).

Could the hole be used to anchor the guitar during spraying?
 

txbumper57

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Yes, I can confirm, it is solid rosewood you see through the hole and there appears to be no function to this hole. At first, I thought it was access to the truss rod, but no.
Merlin might be right, it could be that they are using a standard neck for multiple guitars and it has the option of being bolted on. Which brings me to the question:

Which MIA Oxnard Guitar would have a bolt on neck?

Edit: It would seem more likely to be access to the truss rod on other models...

M20, D20, M40, D40 Regular, F40 and pretty much any other satin finished Oxnard made Guild got Mortise and Tenon Neck joints. Whether or not they were Bolt on M/T neck joints was never actually revealed from Guild as they danced around answering that question pretty regularly. By the way the existence of this type of neck joint wasn't actually revealed until after they had shipped products to customers and someone called them on it. Before that happened they advertised the guitars as being built to original 60's specs which we all found out wasn't the case because the originals all had Dovetail neck joints.

The F55, D55, and D40 traditional all are reported to have what Guild refers to as a "New Improved Dovetail Neck Joint". Whatever the "New and Improved" part of it is I have not heard. It is interesting that they would use a Neck block on a Glued Dovetail joint that has holes in it when considering the more solid a neck block is the more vibrations that travel through the entire guitar especially when the truss rod is only accessible through the head stock face plate on All Oxnard Made American Guilds built thus far. I am not making assumptions either way, just putting some info out there to answer your question.

TX
 
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richardp69

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This whole thread is wonderful IMHO. I know there are some feelings that the new made in the USA Cordoba Guilds can never compete with anything from Hoboken, Westerly, New Hartford etc. I owned a lower end Cordoba Guild (D 20) and I also thought build quality was excellent as was the tone/sound. I know the two guitars are different in every sense of the word but it's still uplifting to see an unbiased, from the heart, positive review of one on the new Oxnard builds, and an upper end build at that.

I doubt anybody on this forum wishes Cordoba anything but success and reviews like this will really help as the word gets out into the guitar buying community. Thanks for taking the time to start this thread.
 

adorshki

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Could the hole be used to anchor the guitar during spraying?

Great question, actually! I've seen a pic of a guitar being sprayed in Westerly but can't recall how it was supported.
Still, while I see the economic benefit of using a universal neck block, I also think that models using true dovetail joints would benefit from having a completely solid and thus stronger block, besides the acoustic properties.
But that could be another explanation for that "hole".
I also wondered if perhaps it was to enable easier disassembly for a neck reset, maybe a better steam/heat injection point? (Although we know they went to Titebond for necksets in NH, I don't recall hearing what they might be using in Oxnard)
It'd be instructive to compare it to a D55's block because as of yesterday and this morning, Guild's website does NOT show the F55 as using a dovetail that they specifically mention for the D55 and the Traditional D40:
http://guildguitars.com/g/f-55-in-natural/
This might be an oversight or spec'd elsewhere but one wonders why it's not shown in the description when they took pains to include it in the other 2 descriptions:
D55:
"The D-55 remains true to all the premium appointments of its 1968 predecessor, including a AAA Sitka spruce top, solid Indian Rosewood back and sides, ebony fingerboard and bridge, and nitrocellulose finish. Internal refinements include scalloped Adirondack bracing as well as an improved dovetail neck-joint, hand fit to make this generation of D-55 the lightest, loudest, and best-sounding yet."
D40 Trad.:
"The D-40 Traditional’s three piece mahogany and walnut neck is topped with an Indian rosewood fingerboard and is joined to the body with an authentic dovetail joint"
 

bobouz

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Ren used placement holes for various purposes with Gibson, at various points in the neck, on the bridgplate, and perhaps at other locations. I seem to recall seeing video where he began utilizing the same type of locator/alignment placement holes on Guild necks. Just a guess, but this hole at the neckblock may be something of a similar nature. In enlarging the area, note that the grain orientation of the rosewood through the hole appears to be vertical, opposite the orientation of the solid rosewood sides.

The other theory of the neckblock being similarly cut for the M&T joint models seems like a valid possibility, too. Don't know about Guild's M&T system, but Martin's M&Ts utilize a one bolt attachment, along with being glued. Martin's M&T necks also have a similar cover piece for the neckblock, on which the model & serial number appears.

I'm sure at some point we'll find out what it's all about. Kinda surprised though, that they didn't just cover the hole with a slightly larger serial number plate - for people like us who look at such things!
 

adorshki

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I'm not buying that, Al. The hole is countersunk, clearly meant to take a bolt or nut head.

You mean about it being there as a spray support? (Because I raised other "maybe" questions).
But it sounds like you're giving more evidence for it actually being the same block used for the M&T joint? (and that still doesn't automatically mean it isn't really a dovetail, but that's why it'd be nice to see what's inside a D55 or D40 Trad., that's what I was really gettin' at. Oh, and just to give credit to Dondoh for thinking outside the box)

Ren used placement holes for various purposes with Gibson, at various points in the neck, on the bridgeplate, and perhaps at other locations. I seem to recall seeing video where he began utilizing the same type of locator/alignment placement holes on Guild necks. Just a guess, but this hole at the neckblock may be something of a similar nature.
Thanks B, nice to have info about his previous practices, and makes lot of sense.
And "as old Occam used to say", the most logical explanation is usually the right one...
 
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txbumper57

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Ren used placement holes for various purposes with Gibson, at various points in the neck, on the bridgplate, and perhaps at other locations. I seem to recall seeing video where he began utilizing the same type of locator/alignment placement holes on Guild necks. Just a guess, but this hole at the neckblock may be something of a similar nature.

None of my New Hartford Traditional models ranging from 2011-2014 including one D55-RS that was built a few days before New Hartford closing have any visible holes or cover plates in the neck blocks. Ren started with Guild in 2012, If he did use alignment holes on Guild Traditional Necks in New Hartford they weren't noticeable from viewing the inside of the guitar.

My Orpheums that I own and have owned (5 in total) only had a small hole through the soundhole brace to access the truss rod from the soundhole with a long 4mm hex wrench. The hole for the Truss rod was only slightly larger than the diameter of the truss rod itself and was not countersunk in the way the M/T neck blocks from Oxnard are which this neck block in the photo appears to me to be. They could just be using universal neck blocks like mentioned before but they really should have covered that top hole with the rest of the serial number plate.

TX
 
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ClydeTower

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Beautiful guitar CT! I just put my Orpheum jumbo on the scale, and it read 4.4 pounds. It's by far the lightest jumbo body I've ever hoisted, and even my luthier remarked about the same.

Just weighed the F55e: 4.8 lbs

- Sandy, does your Orph have electronics?

Anybody here on the forum have an F50R and is willing to weigh it?

As a comparison:

NH D55 w/DTar = 5.2 lbs
SJ200 standard w/LR Baggs = 5.2 lbs
 
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txbumper57

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I wish I had a scale Clyde, I could weigh the DTAR and non DTAR version for you. Maybe I will get a chance to pick one up this weekend if I can break free.

TX
 

bobouz

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None of my New Hartford Traditional models ranging from 2011-2014 including one D55-RS that was built a few days before New Hartford closing have any visible holes or cover plates in the neck blocks. Ren started with Guild in 2012, If he did use alignment holes on Guild Traditional Necks in New Hartford they weren't noticeable from viewing the inside of the guitar. TX

Tx - Just to clarify re my earlier comments:

I have never seen a locator/alignment hole on any Ren era Gibson or Guild neckblock. Where I have seen the use of these holes in Gibsons is in relation to the neck & fingerboard, and they are not visible once the guitar is fully constructed. The other area is in the middle of the bridgeplate, just north of the bridge pin holes. This hole does remain visible, and is filled with a plug.

As for Guilds, I have seen video of similar alignment holes being used in the neck/fingerboard region. I cannot remember for sure if this video was from NH or Oxnard, but here's what my almost 67 year old pea brain seems to recall: I believe it was a video that was put out by Cordoba during the Oxnard plant's start-up, and various bits of equipment & construction processes were being shown to demonstrate that the plant was truly coming on line. As soon as I saw the neck/fingerboard alignment holes, my first thought was: "Interesting that Ren has now incorporated this process into the construction of Guilds."

So that said, my speculation about the neckblock hole on Clyde's new beauty was simply that > Idle speculation regarding the possibility of this hole being one that's utilized as some sort of locator. Would I put money on it? Absolutely not! If I were a wagering sort of guy, I'd actually put my chips down on this being a universal neckblock for both the M/T & dovetail bodies.

I'm sure we'll eventually find out exactly what the deal is, but until we do, all OCD hands on deck!
 
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fronobulax

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As soon as I saw the neck/fingerboard alignment holes, my first thought was: "Interesting that Ren has now incorporated this process into the construction of Guilds."

I learn and I forget. On the first LMG I was impressed by alignment holes and tabs and the other features in construction that were used to help make the pieces together. So alignment holes for Guilds at NH definitely predate Ren. What I do not recall is whether I saw neck/fingerboard holes or not, so that specific innovation might have been Ren's but maybe not.

While it is kind of neat to attribute everything at New Hartford to Ren, we do well to remember that the factory made guitars before and in addition to Guilds and that many of the production processes and procedures were in place before he arrived.

Oxnard is a different story since he was pretty much given a blank piece of paper and told to design and build a factory.
 

bobouz

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Fro - Thanks for that piece of NH info. Although I was always rooting for them, my interest in Guild lay mostly dormant from the end of the '70s until 2015. What I know about the inner workings of the New Hartford factory could fit on a pinhead, but clearly, they were building fine instruments before Ren's arrival in 2012. At that time, my armchair perspective tended to suggest that he was focused mostly on developing the Orpheum line, and utilized aspects of his Gibson background in doing so (such as his extensive knowledge re the roundshoulder platform). But again, that was strictly from a very casual observation perch.

When I decided to revisit my favorite '70s Westerlys in 2015, my focus on all things Guild-related was renewed. The Oxnard transition was slowly moving forward, and as you stated, Ren was clearly the responsible party for the development of that facility.

Clyde's report on his new Oxnard jumbo reflects positively on Guild's hopeful future, and it reads rather like a story coming full circle.
 

feet

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IMG_3494.jpg


Not a label per say, but a "stamp"

Oh, well that's very interesting. Cool. Better than a label, really. Is that plaque velcro'd to the neck block, or is it actually part of it? I'm wondering how they'd do that. On other guitars I've got, that's just a velcro'd piece of wood, but it covers a bolt-on neck. That's not (or, better not be) the case here.

since i don't think it was addressed, i'll take a stab at it. 86% sure that black velcro thing is the battery bag for the active pickup. my m20 has the baggs element vtc and a similar black bag in a similar location, with suspicious cables running out of that seem to connect to the little thumbwheels in the soundhole :)

the only reason i know that is because guild sent me a blueprint with a recommended location for installation of the strap pin. above the neck on the side of the upper bout. or, right through that stupid bag. that was a close call.

mine also has that etched block (which appears to be a second piece, but its hard to be sure) and a small circular label inside that has a guild logo, a made in california designation and the model number written in. pretty sparse, but i don't mind it.
 

Cougar

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...86% sure that black velcro thing is the battery bag for the active pickup.....

I'll up that to 99%.

My JF30-12 didn't have a bag. The 9v was just stuck on the block somehow, but it kept falling off. I had my luthier put in a bag last time I had work done on her. No more battery banging around the inside of the guitar!
 
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