Gibson acoustics at GC

Grassdog

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I admit I probably don't have the attention for finish detail that others do. I buy most of mine used anyway so there are usually going to be some imperfections. All I really care about is how they feel in my hands, how they respond and sound. My Gibson acoustics have all been great guitars in that regard and I really cherish the ones I own.
 

Grassdog

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My favorite Gibson acoustic (so far) - 1964 Country Western

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Bikerdoc

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Guys, I'm talking about manufacturing flaws and imperfections. Just reporting what I'm seeing, and it hasn't been only at GC.

Yeah I get that. I just had to throw in what I thought of my J40. However, I had a Gibson Songwriter and a Gibson Artist Series at one time. Both had flaws that quite simply made me boil.. I sent the Artist Series back and I receive this reply, "We can try and fix this piece of sh@@ or just send you out another one". I was quite surprised they actually admitted that the guitar was garbage. I won't go into the flaws but they did send me out a new one. The Songwriter I sold within 2 weeks.
 

Westerly Wood

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I sent the Artist Series back and I receive this reply, "We can try and fix this piece of sh@@ or just send you out another one". I was quite surprised they actually admitted that the guitar was garbage.

Oh my! That is bold. I do not think I could speak that way re the software I support and still keep my job. :)
 

adorshki

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Oh my! That is bold. I do not think I could speak that way re the software I support and still keep my job. :)


Just make sure to speak with a thick Indian accent and tell 'em your name is Fred.
Oh yes, if you tap on the desk vigorously with your fingernails while listening to their complaint they think you're logging everything in on your keyboard and are suitably mollified.
 
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dreadnut

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My favorite Gibson acoustic (so far) - 1964 Country Western

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That is a beauty Roger! You'll have to bring that one next time we get together.

Don't get me wrong guys; I love me some Gibsons and there are many I would love to add to the stable. Especially including my buddy's '66 Hummingbird.

And I suppose I would have to admit I have an axe to grind, so to speak, since Gibson left Kalamazoo, MI. And boy have they been on a wild ride ever since.

But I was also a Manufacturing Quality Manager in my previous life, so I'm naturally a tough customer. I figure if they can't get the visual details right, what can I expect from the attributes I can't inspect? Once again, at $2,500 for a basic mahogany box with no deluxe accoutrements, yes, I want perfection. The acoustics I'm seeing from Bozeman would have never left the Kalamazoo facility.
 

richardp69

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Not to beat this one to death (which we already likely have) but do you think there's a chance that not all Gibsons coming out of Bozeman (or wherever) have the problems you've seen? Could it be one of the lousy guitars Gibson produced (as do most all Manufacturers)??

Also, others have asked could it be because it was a GC guitar and likely has had bunches of hands on it???

I'm likely sounding a bit biased here but I will admit that Gibson product runs a very close 2nd to Guild, at least for me.

I'll shut up now and won't risk offending any more of you by continuing down this path. Good night!!!
 

adorshki

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Also, others have asked could it be because it was a GC guitar and likely has had bunches of hands on it???
What I always inferred from Sandy's story about Ren Ferguson's comment about GC is that Gibson somewhere along the line did some sorting to get the cream of the crop to the high-end "real" music stores and GC got all the literally "run of the mill" leftovers.
Easily explains the disparity of perceived quality depending on source of purchase.
And probably much easier to sort for 3 or 4 very fine examples for a long time (decades) loyal dealer than to try to vet a couple of hundred for a GC warehouse order:
"Hey, they passed QC< that's good enough for GC"
I honestly can't hold it against 'em and let's not forget that Guild production was exponentially smaller than Gibson, it was simply easier for 'em to pay more attention to each individual instrument, and they did, according to Guild Gallery #1.
Each station vetted the work of previous stations and sent pieces back for rework if necessary.
I wonder if that was even feasible on the Gibson line?
Maybe at Kalamazoo or under Ren?
 
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Westerly Wood

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What I always inferred from Sandy's story about Ren Ferguson's comment about GC is that Gibson somewhere along the line did some sorting to get the cream of the crop to the high-end "real" music stores and GC got all the literally "run of the mill" leftovers.
Easily explains the disparity of perceived quality depending on source of purchase.
And probably much easier to sort for 3 or 4 very fine examples for a long time (decades) loyal dealer than to try to vet a couple of hundred for a GC warehouse order:
"Hey, they passed QC< that's good enough for GC"
I honestly can't hold it against 'em and let's not forget that Guild production was exponentially smaller than Gibson, it was simply easier for 'em to pay more attention to each individual instrument, and they did, according to Guild Gallery #1.
Each station vetted the work of previous stations and sent pieces back for rework if necessary.
I wonder if that was even feasible on the Gibson line?
Maybe at Kalamazoo or under Ren?

i bought a J45 for my wife at GC, it was awesome. were were blown away while testing it out. i traded a taylor 612c in part for it. of course, i sold the J45 a couple years later. Nic still misses that one, though not so much anymore. most likely the one i would like to have kept, just for her. she loved that gibby.
 

adorshki

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i bought a J45 for my wife at GC, it was awesome. were were blown away while testing it out. i traded a taylor 612c in part for it. of course, i sold the J45 a couple years later. Nic still misses that one, though not so much anymore. most likely the one i would like to have kept, just for her. she loved that gibby.

Just occurred to me, could it have been due at least in part to being a short scale? (J45's are 24-3/4, right?)
And to be clear I didn't mean to imply that all GC guitars must have been "average", only that they likely simply got shipped in larger lots and therefor odds of getting a "great one" may have been lower but certainly not out of the question.
:friendly_wink:
 

Westerly Wood

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Just occurred to me, could it have been due at least in part to being a short scale? (J45's are 24-3/4, right?)
And to be clear I didn't mean to imply that all GC guitars must have been "average", only that they likely simply got shipped in larger lots and therefor odds of getting a "great one" may have been lower but certainly not out of the question.
:friendly_wink:

oh of course, all mfgs make duds now and again. From my experience, Guilds, Larrivees and Taylors are very consistent in build quality, while Martin and Gibson seem to struggle from time to time. I know the J45 lower bout depth was tough on Nic, and I was undergoing a 2nd left wrist surgery so I unloaded it. I regret it but I was not in a good frame of mind at the time, water under bridge etc. :) She does not play much anymore, and when she does, she plays the Br as she says it sounds closest to her gibby.

Really for Nic, and her size, the Martin 0-16NY (New Yorker) was the best fit. That really is the one she would say to you she would like to have back. I just like the sound of J45s :)
 
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Sal

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I used to want a J45, they do sound so great, but I've really come to love the F / Aught body shapes when they're not too deep. My Guild F40 and Martin 000-18 are keeping me happy and I don't play my D25 much anymore. I just sold my Gibson L-50, that was a fun little arch top. Other than the J200 jumbo I can't think that Gibson ever made a smaller flat top guitar in the F / Aught style. Did they?


Back to dreadnut's original post on new Gibson quality, I haven't looked at their acoustics for 2019 but I think they've got some good things happening with their electrics, though not cheap. There's a TV yellow LP Special for $1599 with a wraparound bridge that looks good to me.
 

adorshki

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Other than the J200 jumbo I can't think that Gibson ever made a smaller flat top guitar in the F / Aught style. Did they?
Sal, don't understand "F/Aught" (F-O?), or do you mean "O" body as opposed to dreadnought? (That, I can understand)
And not sure about "other than the SJ200"; which I see as a full 17" lower bout.
Being a lover of 16" lower bout F-body like the F40, also known as "Grand Auditorium" in Taylorspeak, you got my curiosity up.
A little searching comes up with the J-165 at 15" lower bout width, and even L-OO at 14-3/4" lower bout width in the "F" body style, assuming the folks citing the specs are correct:
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=480291
Interestingly I have a hard time finding those dimensions on Gibson's site.
And at least a few members on the Acoustic Guitar forum who seem like they should know better seem woefully unaware that anybody besides Taylor offers (or "offered", right now) a 16" lower bout "F-body"...something Guild was offering (F40) right about the same time Bob Taylor was screaming about being so unceremoniously kicked out of the womb.
I've also had members here suggest the J-185 in response to my ire over the lack of a current production Grand Auditorium/F-40 body from Guild.
Is that what you were getting at, without getting into the relatives costs or quality issues?
:friendly_wink:
 
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Sal

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adorshki, when I say Aught style I'm referring to the Martin 0, 00, 000, and 0000 that I think are very comparable to Guild's F series body styles. I can't think of a Gibson that had similar proportions. The Gibson J65 comes close but it looks like a mini jumbo and its body is deeper, I think 4.5 inches at the end pin compared to Martin/Guild at 4 inches. I've never held a Martin 0000 but I'd guess it's the closest thing out there to a Guild F40 in size and shape.

 

adorshki

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adorshki, when I say Aught style I'm referring to the Martin 0, 00, 000, and 0000 that I think are very comparable to Guild's F series body styles. I can't think of a Gibson that had similar proportions. The Gibson J65 comes close but it looks like a mini jumbo and its body is deeper, I think 4.5 inches at the end pin compared to Martin/Guild at 4 inches. I've never held a Martin 0000 but I'd guess it's the closest thing out there to a Guild F40 in size and shape.


Got it thanks, I figured that's what you meant and assumed the generic narrow-waisted look was what you were getting at as opposed to how close the actual proportions were.
Yeah even the L-OO is a pretty different outline but the closest of the bunch.
 

Sal

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I figured that's what you meant
adorshki, I've never heard of the Martins referred to as Os, always aughts. Like a shotgun round 00 / double-aught or a rifle round 30.06 / thirty-aught-six. I think with the Guild Fs the aughts are the sexiest of all acoustics!
 
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