Help identifying my 60th Birthday present?

[Jezzo]

A very lovely friend gave me this fantastic Guild Starfire for my 60th birthday.

In the 80s he was looking for an appropriate guitar to play in a skiffle band and I persuaded him to buy it as it sounded so amazing!
It still does ....
He has always known I love this guitar so, being amazingly generous, he gave it to me for my 60th.

It is in a bit of a mess but that's fine as I will really enjoy doing it up.

It has a serial no of 24395 so I guess it's 1963?

I was confused about the pickups as they have lost their covers but I think they might be Franz?

At some point someone has replaced the original tuners with Yamaha ones.

I would be very grateful if any of you wise folk on this forum could give me any information about it?

I am a Guild newbie so don't know much.

Also, does anyone know anywhere I could get replacement pickup covers?

 

[jp]

Hey there, Jezzo -

Welcome to the LTG forum! That's quite a good friend. According to the Guild serial number chart, your SF would be a '63. For Guilds from that era, 1963 was a transition period for the SF models, and there were a few possibilities.

First of all, it's helpful to know if it's a SF I, II, or III with the Florentine cutaway, or a dual rounded cutaway body with the semi-hollow body. Certain pickups were used on each body type.

We can help you more easily if you posted a picture.

 

[gjmalcyon]

Jezzo - welcome aboard and stick around. Nice bunch of folks here.

 

[GAD]

Images look to be password protected, so you can probably see them but we can't.

 

[Jezzo]

Sorry .... I did post images but they didn't seem to work.
Trying again

 

[Stuball48]

Nice and welcome. My friend gave me a monogrammed handkerchief for my 60th birthday.

 

[chazmo]

Gosh, that's a beauty, Jezzo. The screws and polepieces, etc., look a little bit rusty/pitted from whatever environment she was stored in. I recommend a tear down and clean all the pieces before reassembly. I don't exactly know what I'm talking about (I play acoustics), but to me she looks like she needs a little TLC. Definitely a beautiful piece of history, Jezzo.

 

[SFIV1967]

Welcome to LTG! Now that's a nice Guild! Congratulations! Except the tuners everything else looks original to me. Starfire II (EDIT: T-100D, see Hans post below) with added bigsby I'd say. By the way, the bridge is compensated for a wound G string, not a plain G string. A plain G string would not be perfectly intonated on that guitar.
What does the label say? Starfire II or III ?
I'm not sure about the pickups... Hans Moust will be able to identify them, he would also know what covers they used (all metal or metal with white top). He will most probably comment here.
Ralf

 

[walrus]

Wow! Welcome!

That's a cool guitar! You have excellent friends!

walrus

 

[AcornHouse]

What does the label say? Starfire II or III ?
I'm not sure about the pickups but they look like a rare DeArmond version on early 60ies Guild guitars. Hans Moust will be able to identify them, he would also know what covers they used (all metal or metal with white top). He will most probably comment here.
Ralf

Those aren’t the bevelled Dearmonds. Their polepieces are flat topped and wider; basically magnets. The metal base is similar, but doesn’t seem as tall as on the Dearmonds. (Plus they were only on the 1960 Starfire’s.) They might be the P90-ish pups used on the Jetstars, but that’s unusual on a Starfire. They could be non-original innards stuffed in Dynasonic bases. (Yes, I know they’re not really Dynasonic, but that’s how most people think of them.)

 

[Jezzo]

Here is a photo of the inside label.
As you see .... it has somewhat faded!

Thanks for all the replies so far.

Are you sure they aren't Franz pickups?
The only photos I have seen on the web suggest they are ....?

This is a photo I found on eBay ....

 

[Jezzo]

I have also found this photo which came up on Google images when searching for Franz pickups.
Apparently it came from this forum but the associated thread is now no longer accessible sadly.
This pickup is exactly the same as the one's in my guitar. It even has the same holes in the bobbins.
Does anyone maybe remember this post/thread/pickup?

 

[Default]

They are Franzes without the covers. The plastic they used shrinks over time. It probably got so bad, that the owner removed them. There was a guy on ebay that sold copies of his. I don't remember his name.

 

[AcornHouse]

They are Franzes without the covers. The plastic they used shrinks over time. It probably got so bad, that the owner removed them. There was a guy on ebay that sold copies of his. I don't remember his name.

But stuffed into non-Franz bases.

 

[hansmoust]

Hello Jezzo,

Welcome! Without holding the guitar in my hands I cannot tell you exactly what it is that you have, but it is definitely a guitar with a story.
The guitar has various parts from different periods, which tells us something, but it may be hard to figure out what was done at the Guild factory and what was done at a later date.
I believe that the guitar was built on the 'superstructure' of a T-100D or an early Starfire that is older than the serial number would suggest.
The black switch mounting plate directs to a serial number earlier than # 20000 and I expect that the guitar doesn't have binding on the back.
It is very well possible that an older 'superstructure' was re-used to complete this guitar or that it was used for a repair to replace something that could not be repaired. These are the kind of things that did happen at the factory, but it is often impossible to figure out the exact history.
It looks like we're dealing with a T-100D, that was repaired around 1963. The pickups should have the metal covers, but for some reason they were mounted in the surrounds that may already have been part of the original 'superstructure' / guitar.
The pickguard and the truss rod cover point into the direction of a T-100D, not a Starfire, but obviously these are parts that can be replaced.
The Bigsby is not the kind that would have been used by Guild during that particular period.
The label looks to be the second label, since there are traces of an earlier label visible on the inside of the back. The writing on the label is not clear enough to see what was written there originally, but maybe you can see more than I can in the photo.

So I have 2 questions:

Are there traces of an earlier serial number on the back of the headstock?

Are there 'footprints' of earlier Waverly tuners on the back of the headstock?

I hope that what I've written down makes sense to you. Like I said, we may never know the exact history of this guitar, but this is what I can tell you from looking at the photos.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[Jezzo]

But stuffed into non-Franz bases.

Ahh .. thanks Chris ... so you think that the pickups are not matched with the the pickup surrounds they are currently in?
This is getting stranger ....

 

[Jezzo]

The back and the headstock

 

[Jezzo]

Hans!

Thank you so much for your wealth of information!

I have just posted photos of the whole of the back of the guitar.

The serial number is really difficult to read anyway .... There may be a faint halo of another number but it's impossible to make out for sure .... but there are signs that the area where the serial number sits has been refinished.

Here is the best photo I could get of it

I have found somewhere to get some Franz covers ... but not until June!

Guild T-100 Pickup Covers, Gibson | Redvenomrepros

Guild guitar pickup covers, Gibson, Teisco, Magnatone

www.redvenomrepros.com

If you know anywhere else I could get some ... or any other suggestions of what I should do with the guitar?

It would be fantastic to know the definitive history but we may never know.

I assumed it was a Starfire because of the Bigsby ... so you think its more of a T-100D?

I am so grateful for your kind input!

 

[Jezzo]

The pickups should have the metal covers,

I assumed they were plastic covers?
Do you have any photos of the correct cover?

 

[DThomasC]

That bobbin doesn't look like any Franz I've seen.