What is it about Taylors?

OK. . .background here. . .

I decided in my infinite wisdom in High School (circa 1993. . .i know. . .i'm a baby!) that there were just certain things that I didn't like. I wasn't a big Gibson fan (although I had a nice Les Paul), hated Marshall amps (stuck with my Fenders), decided that I didn't like Martin acoustics (didn't really have an opinion on Guild) and that I would one day get a Taylor.

Was it the sound? Maybe. . .but i'm more inclined to believe that it was either 1) that this irrationality was just something thought up in my head to combat "trendiness." or 2) my experience with Marshalls, Martins and Gibsons were with lower end models. . .and a lot of other manufacturers were making much better lower end stuff. WHO KNOWS.

Now today. . .I love Martin guitars (although I still think their lower end stuff is better off in a dumpster sometimes), love Marshall TUBE amps (all their solid state amps sound junky to me. . .as do MOST of their NEW tube amps), and love Gibson STYLE electrics (I've still got my Les Paul as well as a Tokai Love rock that I LOVE). I've only recently gotten into Guilds and, as i've seen a lot of people say, i'm pretty bummed i didn't get into them sooner!

So Taylor. . .where do I begin? I've never played a Taylor that sounded "bad" but i've never played one that sounded awesome either. I feel like i'm playing some kind of robot guitar that is made "too well." They all sound so lifeless to me. GRANTED i've never played multi-thousand dollar Taylors, but the ones on price point with Guilds, Martins, etc just don't seem to hold up. They sound good, but don't seem like they have anything to offer.

I was at a friend's house when another friend of mine from high school showed up. I was telling him about my recent Guild obsession and he immediately chimed in "You should get a Taylor!" What???

So yeah. . .what's the big deal? What's the hype?

-James

Taylor has done some real innovations in guitar construction, and they also have acquired some magnificent woods and used them over the years as serious eye candy.

They've also proven to be a reasonable investment and there's a big second-hand market now on eBay, etc.

I love Taylors. I find them to be exceptionally easy to play. Another feature which a lot of folks like (but is not relevant for me) is that many/most of their product line comes with embedded electronics that really help live performers.

And yeah, there's also the issue of "trendiness." No question, Taylor has created a lot of buzz over the years.

There was a huge sag in the acoustic market in the '80s, and (IMO) the established makers really took a hit through that period, and Taylor made their name then.

hum. . .GREAT answer!

Don't get me wrong. . .i've heard some nice sounding Taylors. . .just none (so far) that have thrown me for one. . .you know? Even when I "hated" Martin i had heard some that really knocked my socks off. I just haven't had that in Taylor and wondered what "the deal" was.

In our world (well my world anyway) you can get custom builds and small luthiers (production wise. . .not 3' tall luthiers. . .well. . .i suppose a 3' tall luthier would be fine too. . .) and get a superb instrument. (and by "my world" i mean that I know about it. . .not that i can afford it!) In the "common world" (i guess), there's a general "batting order" of instruments that people just go by name. Martin seems to be the old grandfather that can do no wrong, but most people I know look at Taylor like I look at some custom made instruments. "Wow. . .a TAYLOR!!!" While a lot of people get excited about "finally buying a taylor" or "finally buying a martin," guys like us get off saying things like: "I think i've found the best sounding guitar EVER!", "Can you believe this was only $300??" or my favorite: "DUDE. . .you've got to hear this brand that nobody's ever heard of. . .they're extremely undervalued and sound AMAZING!"

-James

James,

Have you played a Taylor "Grand Symphony" model? They introduced this body style in 2006. For me, the GS actually did rock my world a bit (sonically speaking, that is).

Taylor is a whirlwind of constant model change, and now they even have the exclusive "R. Taylor" brand, which is essentially a custom shop... To me they seem much more dynamic than the other companies out there, including Guild; I give them credit for that.

Chazmo said:

Taylor has done some real innovations in guitar construction, and they also have acquired some magnificent woods and used them over the years as serious eye candy.

They've also proven to be a reasonable investment and there's a big second-hand market now on eBay, etc.

I love Taylors. I find them to be exceptionally easy to play. Another feature which a lot of folks like (but is not relevant for me) is that many/most of their product line comes with embedded electronics that really help live performers.

And yeah, there's also the issue of "trendiness." No question, Taylor has created a lot of buzz over the years.

There was a huge sag in the acoustic market in the '80s, and (IMO) the established makers really took a hit through that period, and Taylor made their name then.

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I'm real happy with my Guilds against the Taylors hanging on the wall for the genrl publik to touch. Although I've had to spend some money to get my Guilds to play the way a new Taylor does. It's when I'm in the same room with a "Big Taylor", $3500 - $5000 & up things can get a bit humble. Smitty, my instructor, has a Cocoabolo 900? Series LTD, retail about 5K, we do acoustic occasionally, I'd trade my GF 60 for his Taylor in a minute.

Average, tire kicker, guitar shopper never knows the big Taylors exist, they're usually cased up in the bosses back office, & shown on a need to know basis. Usually they have a couple nice Martins back there too, along with the odd "Something Special Vintage". Least that's the way they do it here in my town.

Only reason I know about em is folks there seem to have been misled concerning my net worth. Don't go back there any more, it's embarrassiong, hacking away the way I do.

Some really good points Mingus.

First, lets deal with trendyness. There is a very special group of people on LTG who realize that bucking the trends by buying, playing and hanging on to Guilds is a good thing!

Now Martin, Taylor and others vs. Guild.

First Martin. What an odd company. Guild has at least built and maintined its core line -- D-40, D-50, D-55 and the J series six and twelve strings for years. The new models added since the move to Tacoma are all high quality and show some innovation. They don't make you feel cheated when buying a D-50 by introducing a higher end D-50 "Authentic" at 4 times the cost. Martin on the other hand has more versions of their basic instruments than you can count, they make low end guitars for Guitar Center that make GADs look like Collings (what's with the formica fretboards anyhow?), and the vintage, autheintic and signature lines are at times both odd and insulting. How would you like to buy a standard, supposedly classic D-18 for a couple of thousand dollars, when the "Authentic" model is approaching 10 Grand? aren't they all authentic? then they take the same model and throw a signature on it and double the price -- all for a little mother of pearl. That is just not my kind of company.

Gibson has a fascinating marketing model: reduce quality while raising prices. What is that all about??? Sorry, overall they just don't do it for me. I've been looking for a slope shouldered Gibby to love but it just wasn't happening, I bought a Santa Cruz instead; new guitar for less than the vintage Gibson it was based on and not much less than a new Gibson and far, far superior.

Now your question -- what is it about Taylors? I guess the first thing you can say is that they all have Bob Taylor's signature on the label. Bob stands for quality, and that is what you get. Build quality is consistent across the board -- a baby taylor is a fine instrument and a PS is a work of art. Taylor does some amazing things with woods, even in the lower end guitars. Their instruments show that someone is really paying attention when matching woods and choosing where to cut their patterns in wood sets. The Taylor necks are consistently the easiest to play of all production guitars. My 750 twelve plays much easier than my JF65-12. Then there is the Taylor sound. If you are used to the power of a Guild, most Taylors other than the jumbos and GS series are not going to be your cup of tea (R Taylors are another animal entirely, no two sound alike). But they are clean and consistent. I have three Taylors that I would consider awesome, and at least two of them will be with me forever. But it did take a lot of looking, and with Taylors it is easy to look, they're everywhere. I have a very good friend with a 914 CE, a spectacular piece of eye candy, but whenever we get together he's all over my Guilds. I have a T5 that I will never part with, but I had a T5-12 that I kept for only two weeks, and that was one week too long. I've never found a new Taylor 12 that stands up to my JF-65, but my older Taylor 750 12 (no Taylor is old enough to call vintage) has the tone if not the volume. And finally, when push came to shove, I sold my wonderful DV-52 because my Taylor Custom Dn was -- well -- just a little more wonderful. And there's one other thing about the Taylor guys that is exceptional, hands on customer service. When you call them there is a human there to answer your questions, and they monitor and participate in the AGF Taylor message board. How many Guild execs do you think will be reading, let alone responding to this post?

Frankly, as Guild owners, players and collectors, we're spoiled. We've been getting away with murder by buying beautifuly built, incredible sounding gutiars at, compared to the market, rediculously low prices. I would hold my JF-65 12 up to a luthier built model any day, and guitars like West's DV-72 -- which costs about the same as tax and shipping on similar "special edition" martins is second to none.

So what is it with Taylor? What is it with Toyota? Incredibly reliable, in touch with the market, in touch with their customers and proud of what they build. What say the rest of you?

A personal anecdote:

Last year at a local open stage evening, a much-respected local guitarist was beginning his first song when he broke a string on his Martin. Rather than waste time restringing on stage, he asked to borrow a guitar from the crowd. I was in the front row with my D-25 (I was up next), seated next to another respected player with a Taylor (don't know the model). We both stood up & held out our instruments. The player on stage looked at both of us, said "Ah, a Guild! May I?"

Ross said:

A personal anecdote:

Last year at a local open stage evening, a much-respected local guitarist was beginning his first song when he broke a string on his Martin. Rather than waste time restringing on stage, he asked to borrow a guitar from the crowd. I was in the front row with my D-25 (I was up next), seated next to another respected player with a Taylor (don't know the model). We both stood up & held out our instruments. The player on stage looked at both of us, said "Ah, a Guild! May I?"

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Score!

I don't have much experience in the guitar world in general but my take on any of the Taylors I played is that they are very nice to look at. Beautifully built, nicely finished and you can get bling up to your eyeballs with them, of course it's gonna cost you.

Only 1 I played that I would play again, the GSRS. Would I buy it? Doubt it, there are many more guitars, mostly Guilds that I would buy before it.

To me they don't sound like what I want to hear from a guitar. Experienced performers can play them and they sound wonderful, could be the sound guy too though. :shock:

In Arlington there was a booth, Dave's I think that had a good line up of Guilds and then a good line up of Taylors. I went down the line, played a bit of about 10 guitars. Everyone of the Guilds sounded like a "guitar" to me. The Taylors were pretty though.

BABY TAYLORS. . .i forgot about them!!

That's probably what set me off hating on Taylors too! I think they sound "acceptable" for a travel guitar. . .although funny enough, Ibanez used to make this travel guitar that, in my experience, sounded a whole lot better! But what about something like the Big Baby? I mean. . .i know I probably run the risk of offending someone here. . .but man those are some of the worst sounding guitars i've ever played. They're LOUD. . .but cruddy sounding. . .to my ears anyway. . .

I get what everyone is saying, though. Thanks for that. That's why I posted here. . .I don't generally compare one guitar to another in terms of what's "better," (although, like i said, never heard a taylor that knocked my socks off).

What is it about Taylors?

They're great instruments!

Roman said:

What is it about Taylors?
They're great instruments!

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Nice collection! Is it yours?

Roman - Nice selection of Taylors !

Really like the sunburst finish one. And regarding Taylors, I have "wanted" to like them for some time. The finish and detail, I think, is great on them. Love the necks and playability. THe bright tone doesn't quite register in me. Wasn't tell last year that I found one I had to have, which was a 2006 814 (no C, no E)
I'm sure over time I will find other ones I truly like, but they have not been like higher end Martins to me, in that about every third one I play starts to give me that "gotta have" feeling.
Gibsons - I keep trying, old, new and in between and I get no feelings whatsoever. Maybe I don't get it.
tj

mingus2112 said:

Roman said:

What is it about Taylors?
They're great instruments!

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Nice collection! Is it yours?

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Yeah, they're mine.

The tone matures quite nicely on these guys. Even the 614 (maple)
has opened up . . . even across the strings, but mellower and bassier as time goes on.





Some more (No Taylors) notice the one up front . . . I love that D-55!

I had a Taylor 815 jumbo I wish I still had. I think their jumbos are underrated. I played on of their limited editions, a jumbo in cocobolo, that was stunning. Some of their mahogany guitars deserve the "tinny" reputation, IMHO.

FNG said:

Some of their mahogany guitars deserve the "tinny" reputation, IMHO.

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You know. . .that could be my problem right there. I did play a KOA back and sides Taylor that I thought was nice. . .not thrilling. . .but nice. I almost bought it from a friend. . .not because I had to have it. . .because he offered to sell after he had left it at my house for a few months. Things left in my house have a way of turning into "mine."

Anyone want to leave some high end Westerlys and Tacomas at my place while you go on vacation? I've got a humidifier!

-J

The sound of the Taylors is just one that doesn't do it for me. A friend of mine owns about 6 of 'em, Brazilian, maple, koa, mahogany - and non of them do it for me. Sure, they're well built, play very nicely, and look great, but I find their sound thin and brittle - even metallic at times.

Last summer I tried a set of Cleartone strings (spendy but coated) on my Lowden and they made it sound Taylorish, which I didn't care for. Yeah, they lasted well, too well - I wanted to change them to get my Lowden sound back, but had a hard time ditching and set of $25 strings after less than a week!

Bill

Yesterday, my luthier friend, Erv, and I drove to El Cajon (near San Diego) and met california there to take the free Taylor factory tour. It was good time, despite the rain. Driving home, Erv and I shared thoughts about what we'd seen. There were several things that struck us. First, there were not many many people in this factory! The tour guide (who has worked there 9 years) mentioned several times that Bob Taylor loves machinery. It looks like he has never met a machine he doesn't like. I know this mechanization and automation is one of the reasons Taylor has a great reputation for consistency in their quality. It is also a way to use the least amount of wood to make a fine instrument. The guide talked a lot about the declining availability of tonewood. The biggest concern to Taylor is sitka and the other spruce species for tops!! They have come up with several species for sides and backs and necks, but they are expecting a drastic shortage of top woods within 9 years.

This was a very coporate looking , modern, clean, unexceptional facility. What Erv and I took away from the automation of their factory is that each station was doing just an assembly line job that almost anyone could be trained to do. There are some jobs that can only be done by hand, and most of the guys doing those have been at it a few years. But we were both struck by the feeling that there was no real human craftsmanship in their process. Or very little, anyway. The repair and custom shops had very skilled people, but that was about it. For all that, they make a very fine instrument. We spent some time in the showroom by the lobby where several guitars were on display and available to play. The one that I was impressed with was the 210e. It was a sitka-topped, mahogany arch-back! What projection! Can you say Guild D-25!? The kicker was that the discounted showroom demo price was $799. I have the same issue with mahogany Taylors that some of you have mentioned - they sound tinny. This one didn't.

So, we had a good time, got a few souvenirs and a lot more insight into one of the prominent guitar manufacturers. Then I came back to play a Valentine's Day gig at the local coffee house. Nice day!

This was a very coporate looking , modern, clean, unexceptional facility. What Erv and I took away from the automation of their factory is that each station was doing just an assembly line job that almost anyone could be trained to do. There are some jobs that can only be done by hand, and most of the guys doing those have been at it a few years. But we were both struck by the feeling that there was no real human craftsmanship in their process. Or very little, anyway.

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MARK,

I received a DVD instead of a manual with my Taylor T 5, the DVD has a virtual factory tour, Your comments reminded me of the thoughts I had while watching the sections of the DVD covering Taylor's tooling department.

Automation in guitar building has replaced many of the "traditional" skilled craftsmen, however, the fellas in Taylors tooling department are exceptionally skilled. If you get a chance go to Taylor's site & look up "Factory Friday's". The specialized guitar building equipment mostly developed "In house" is impressive, particularly cool are the high tech side benders, & injection molding dies for the binding. The precision of the tooling is amazing & development of said tooling, according to the narration, dreadfully time consuming & expensive.

CNC machinery has revolutionized most every aspect of modern manufacturing. Here's an exerpt from Wikpedia: "The abbreviation CNC stands for computer numerical control, and refers specifically to a computer "controller" that reads G-code instructions and drives a machine tool, a powered mechanical device typically used to fabricate components by the selective removal of material. CNC does numerically directed interpolation of a cutting tool in the work envelope of a machine" .

All of the Tacoma's I have tried in the range from 1000-3500 $ did not impress me either, strangwise.
I mean, they are built very well, the playability is great, but unplugged most of them sounded thin and without life.
I also have the impression with most of the gad's and most other guitars and very rarely find one that "swings" somehow. these ones then are most of the time "handmade" guitars.

may be that a skilled craftsman who builds an instrument with love by hand adds this little extra to a special instrument.

my 2 cts.

...ah, and thanks for the interesting story, mark.