New 12-String Capo

G7th recently came out with a new yoke style capo, called the Heritage, that uses a new Adaptive Radius technology. After corresponding with its director about its effectiveness on 12-strings, he told me to sit tight because a version designed specifically for 12-strings was forthcoming. I just received it, and it is fantastic. The silicon pad contains 3 ramps that address the disparity in size between the E, A and D octave strings. The result is less pressure is required to get a clear tone from all 12 strings. Below are some pics:

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I have used it for a few days now on several different 12-strings and I think it is the best 12-string capo I have ever used. My Elliott capo works very well, but I have to tighten it very much to get the high G string to ring clean. The Heritage does not seem to require as much pressure and its build quality is excellent. Anyway, highly recommended.

Now I have to go see how much. I'm afraid of what it goes for.

It sells for $140 (about the same as an Elliot), and it comes with a nice case.

Crazy price. I accomplish the same thing by gluing a strip of mouse-pad material to my trusty (and reasonably priced) Shubb. Because mouse-pads are spongy they'll fully compress adjacent thick / thin gauged strings clearly, with no buzzing and without a lot of pressure, thus less retuning.

The whole modification takes less than two minutes, and you can buy mouse-pads for practically nothing online. One mouse-pad alone would allow you to modify dozens of capos. I've been mofifying my capos for nearly 30 years.

Glenn

Very cool. Is that a fretless 12-string neck in the 3rd picture?

Glenn, do you have a picture of your mouse-pad mod?

chazmo said:

Very cool. Is that a fretless 12-string neck in the 3rd picture?

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I never heard of a fretless 12 string before. No, it is my F512. I just put white paper on the fretboard so you can see the pad better.

Me neither. Talk about intonation troubles!

chazmo said:

Glenn, do you have a picture of your mouse-pad mod?

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I'll take one and post it here ASAP.

Glenn

wileypickett said:

Crazy price. I accomplish the same thing by gluing a strip of mouse-pad material to my trusty (and reasonably priced) Shubb. Because mouse-pads are spongy they'll fully compress adjacent thick / thin gauged strings clearly, with no buzzing and without a lot of pressure, thus less retuning.

The whole modification takes less than two minutes, and you can buy mouse-pads for practically nothing online. One mouse-pad alone would allow you to modify dozens of capos. I've been mofifying my capos for nearly 30 years.

Glenn

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That's interesting. I would love to try it. I have used all kinds of capos (I like the Shubb very much), and my issue, particularly with 12 strings, is that I have never found one that consistently works on different guitars with different neck sizes, shapes, etc. (or even the same guitar on higher frets). While my Shubb 12 string capo works well on some guitars, it is a struggle to get it to work well on others. Also, many capos lessen sustain or dampen the sound, at least to my ear. I would think spongy material like a mouse pad might have that effect. The Elliott capo is the first one I have found that works consistently with all 12 strings, up to the 7th fret, while maintaining good sound quality. The G7th is the second, and works even better.

The mouse-pad material doesn't dampen the strings any more than your fingers do, which is to say not at all.

Think about it -- notes on guitar are created by the string being pressed down cleanly behind the fret, whether you're getting that note with your fingers or a capo.

The more securely the strings are held in place behind the fret, the more clearly and cleanly that note will ring out.

Twelve-string capos can be dicey to use depending on how firm the pad is. The harder the rubber pad, the more likely it is to inconsistently press the adjacent thin / thick gauge strings down.

My modified capos work more efficiently on 12-strings than capos do fresh out of the box, regardless of brand.

I prefer the deluxe Shubbs with the little wheel in back. The G7th Newport model is also well-made in my opinion.

I also use capos all the way up to the 10th or 11th fret on most guitars. Some necks taper more than others, and some 12-string guitars made prior to the '80s are like baseball bats!

Glenn, have you used your capos on a NH 12er? Their necks are a little thinner than the baseball bats of yore. Just curious; and yeah, would love to see a picture. Either way, I want one!!!

You capo to 10th/11th on a 12-string??!?! You need a mandolin!

wileypickett said:

The mouse-pad material doesn't dampen the strings any more than your fingers do, which is to say not at all.

Think about it -- notes on guitar are created by the string being pressed down cleanly behind the fret, whether you're getting that note with your fingers or a capo.

The more securely the strings are held in place behind the fret, the more clearly and cleanly that note will ring out.

Twelve-string capos can be dicey to use depending on how firm the pad is. The harder the rubber pad, the more likely it is to inconsistently press the adjacent thin / thick gauge strings down.

My modified capos work more efficiently on 12-strings than capos do fresh out of the box, regardless of brand.

I prefer the deluxe Shubbs with the little wheel in back. The G7th Newport model is also well-made in my opinion.

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I understand what you are saying, but I am not sure I entirely agree. I can definitely hear a difference in tone between some capos, even when they are secured properly, just like I can usually hear the difference between barre chords and open chords. That is why I don't like to tune my 12 strings down and capo them up. It just does not sound as good to me.

I assume that a guitar with a sponge nut does not sound as good as one with a bone nut, even if both create clean notes. Never tested this theory, but that is my thinking here.

chazmo said:

Glenn, have you used your capos on a NH 12er? Their necks are a little thinner than the baseball bats of yore. Just curious; and yeah, would love to see a picture. Either way, I want one!!!

You capo to 10th/11th on a 12-string??!?! You need a mandolin!

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Hey Chaz,

I've played a couple NH 12-strings and liked them very much, but I haven't sprung for one yet. I have an F212XL, an F412, F512, JF30 12, D25-12 and a Taylor Leo Kottke model 12-string, so no shortage of 12-strings here!

In terms of my super high-on-the-neck capoing, yeah, it seems absurd! But you may recall I don't sing, and I make my own Partial Capos, which barre the three lower strings and leave the top three strings open. (A couple LTGers have commissioned me to make capos for them.) For me Partial Capos are a tool for creating challenging new sonic terrains and my compositions are a way to navigate them.

On my most recent album, Fleeting, the last piece on the album, "June Too Soon, October All Over," utilizes the three-string capo on the 10th fret. The tuning with the capo is A E A F# A C#, really beautiful tuning.

Glenn

That's wicked cool, Glenn!

awagner said:

Never tested this theory, but that is my thinking here.

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Right now you're just imagining the fix I'm describing and thinking it won't work. Rather than discounting what I'm saying, why not invest two minutes of your time and a couple of pennies for a mouse-pad and find out if I'm right or not?

I'm 63; I've been playing guitar since I was 14. The problem you're describing with 12-string capoing I discovered when I got my first 12-string, a Yamaha, in the mid '80s. In 1989 I began modifying capos and had the idea that piece of mouse-pad material (mouse-pads were suddenly ubiquitous in our world!) might fix the problem I had with 12-string capos, which was that the thin octave strings buzzed, and I could only get rid of the buzzing by tightening the capo to such a degree that it threw the whole guitar out of tune.

My little modification worked -- it obviated the need to cinch the capo so tight the guitar had to be retuned and at the same time it completely got rid of the buzzing octave strings.

Like you, I love my guitars to be loud and clear and for the notes to really ring out. I didn't have to sacrifice any of that for the sake of my solution. I can say unequivocally that my fix has improved the utility of every capo I've used it on, regardless of brand.

You got nothing to lose by trying it!

I am actually intrigued by your solution and I don't assume it does not work. I am sure it does. It is just counterintuitive to me, that's all. In my experience, there is always some sacrifice in tone clarity when you use any capo, which is a separate issue than the ability of a capo to secure all 12 strings cleanly.

If I actually try your solution then we might not have anything more to argue about, which, as an attorney, is simply unacceptable. :smile-new:

Anyway, I look forward to seeing a picture of your modified capo.

awagner said:

If I actually try your solution then we might not have anything more to argue about, which, as an attorney, is simply unacceptable. :smile-new:

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Ha! I dig where you're coming from!

Has anyone tried the Thalia 2 capo on a 12 string? It's supposed to work well and matches the fretboard radius perfectly.

I have one of the original Thalia capos, but I have to say I find them VERY hard to use. You have to be King Kong to hold that thing open and get it on the neck of your guitar.

I understand the new Mach II version has been completely redesigned and is easier to use, but I haven't checked one out yet.