Interesting Conversation with Customs today

GAD

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I bought a '94 Starfire IV from Canada: https://letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?201192-SF4-Couldn-t-Resist

Got a call from UPS Customs Brokerage in Seattle asking about the guitar. He had two main questions:

What's the guitar made of?
Are there any fish and wildlife items on it such as Abalone or Mother of Pearl?

My first answer was, "Do you mean more specific than wood?" and he laughed. He was SUPER nice and we got to talking, and he was thrilled when I told him that it was made in the US in 1994 in Westerly Rhode Island because he told me that he had been on Guild's website trying to figure it out and we had a good laugh when I told him that he was much better off asking me about it since Guild would have no clue.

I was really kind of surprised about him asking about MoP and Abalone and asked him about that, and he said yup - even with small abalone inlays you would need to fill out a fish and wildlife form, etc.

I then asked him about CITES and he said, yup - all rolled back for instruments with the exception of Brazilian Rosewood.

I think I've lived in NJ too long. Dealing with polite nice people is kind of jarring. :tongue-new:

On the downside, since it was in customs all weekend it's delayed and now I won't get it until next Monday. Grumble.

Edit: This was not customs. See below.
 
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HeyMikey

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So who exactly has to fill out the F&W form for the inlays - seller, buyer, customs? Is there a fee? Do they actually test it to see if it is not faux/plastic? I’m talking to someone in Canada about a guitar that has some kind of shell inlays.
 

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So who exactly has to fill out the F&W form for the inlays - seller, buyer, customs? Is there a fee? Do they actually test it to see if it is not faux/plastic? I’m talking to someone in Canada about a guitar that has some kind of shell inlays.

Normally I wouldn't buy a guitar unless the seller paid all the fees and filled out all the forms, but clearly I don't know the entire process since the Customs guy called me.
 

davismanLV

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So is there limitations on shells and such? You fill out the form and then you what?? Pay a fee? Get your guitar confiscated? What are the restrictions, or is it just documentation of such things.......
 

fronobulax

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Normally I wouldn't buy a guitar unless the seller paid all the fees and filled out all the forms, but clearly I don't know the entire process since the Customs guy called me.

Is it possible that you were called because the buyer failed to do the paperwork and the customs officer figured calling you was the fastest way to get you the guitar?

Nice story though.
 

adorshki

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So who exactly has to fill out the F&W form for the inlays - seller, buyer, customs? Is there a fee? Do they actually test it to see if it is not faux/plastic? I’m talking to someone in Canada about a guitar that has some kind of shell inlays.

The inlay issue was also a CITES issue, it just never got the airplay the rosewood did when they had restrictions imposed a couple of years back (and since "rolled back")
WHITE Abalone from South Africa was restricted but I saw a link to an article indicating that restriction was lifted in 2010, unless it ahs recently been re-imposed, and it was put in place by South Africa to restrict export of it.
Abalone is also traditionally the source of MOP.
There are NO molluscs (Abalone is a mollusc) on the current Cites Appendices:
https://www.cites.org/eng/app/appendices.php
Even when white abalone was, it was on Appendix III, the least restrictive. Wouldn't have required documentation in most cases.
It IS possible the US F&WS has it on a US import restriction list, however, which is why it's always best to ask:
Link to F&WS website for permitting:
https://www.fws.gov/international/permits/by-activity/musical-instruments.html
I note that particular page isn't updated yet, because the restrictions on rosewood (except Braz) were lifted last November, but the issue of "other protected species" still applies.

Methinks the seller would be the one to apply for the permit since one would reasonably expect it to be required at the time of entry into the US.
 
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walrus

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Great story! The guy was probably happy to talk to you and take a break from his day - nice!

walrus
 

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So the person I spoke to was not customs; it was UPS Customs Brokerage. My mistake for assuming otherwise. And I just got a bill for $40 for them to broker my item.

So basically UPS decided to clear the item as a broker on my behalf and couldn't figure out what he needed to know, so called me to get the information then charged be $40 for clearing the item for me.
 

GAD

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AND - looking at tracking it's in my local UPS hub. NOT in Seattle? So they clearly shipped it on its way and then attempted to clear it while in the UPS system?

Weird.
 

HeyMikey

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I’m not sure I understand. So it passed through Customs to UPS or is UPS acting as Customs but charging you an extra fee for doing so, while at the same time not knowing what to do? Sounds like a bit of a scam to me.
 

adorshki

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So the person I spoke to was not customs; it was UPS Customs Brokerage. My mistake for assuming otherwise.
??? Since you said it was the UPS brokerage in the first post, figured you were making that clear to the rest of us...
Ah, now I get it: Thread title says "Customs", although at the time I figured it was just understandable "casual usage" on your (and subsequently others') part.
And I just got a bill for $40 for them to broker my item.
So basically UPS decided to clear the item as a broker on my behalf and couldn't figure out what he needed to know, so called me to get the information then charged be $40 for clearing the item for me.
Hmmmm....
Did they inform you of that and obtain permission to bill you?
Were you informed of the alternative if you declined the service?
Does F&WS endorse UPS as its agent to open and inspect your shipment?
A little digging just now reveals that apparently while White Abalone isn't under any CITES restrictions, it is still listed on the ESA (Endangered Species Act) which F&WS does enforce domestically.
So that part does sound "legit".
And Seattle is a designated CITES Port of Entry too, so perhaps the UPS Customs Brokerage has special experience and is properly endorsed.
It's the circumstances that frost me.

Tryin' to be polite about it all but if it was me and this charge was a "surprise" on your credit card then I'd call 'em and ask for a written explanation of the whole thing at the very least.
And speaking of "polite" I got a service charge reversed as a "courtesy refund" on a checking account just last Friday:
Had forgotten it was based on having a credit card linked to the checking account and when I let card expire the service charge kicked in.
Was nice and clam when calling and got what I wanted (took a while, but Customer Service person said I was one of the nicest customers she'd ever talked to, even before I had a chance to tell her that being in the "biz" myself, I thought she had great courtesy and professionalism....and that was before I got an answer about my refund.... :smile:
 
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adorshki

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AND - looking at tracking it's in my local UPS hub. NOT in Seattle? So they clearly shipped it on its way and then attempted to clear it while in the UPS system?

Weird.

I'm guessing it's just a fluke of when the location info is updated.
Betcha it's only in the local hub "on computer" 'cause it got put on the truck going there.

I’m not sure I understand. So it passed through Customs to UPS or is UPS acting as Customs but charging you an extra fee for doing so, while at the same time not knowing what to do? Sounds like a bit of a scam to me.
My initial thought too, but as explained above, after some thought I realized that at that port and given the volume of stuff that ships internationally via UPS, they may well be an authorized agent of US Customs ("UPS is acting as Customs").
It would explain their opening the case to discover the inlays (otherwise, how would they even have known about 'em?) and the statement that they needed F&WS paperwork, and even the fact that they were aware of the need, which is technically an F&WS issue.
Might still demand my pound of flesh in the form of an explanation if the service charge wasn't disclosed up front, though.
:glee:
 
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GuildFS4612CE

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Most cross border shipping goes through shippers customs brokerages rather than directly through customs to expedite shipping...and, yes, they charge a fee...depending on the items being shipped there can be duty and other fees on them as well...this instrument is US made and likely exempt from extra fees...just consider it part of the shipping charge...the same thing happens to recipients across the border on their side.
 

Rich Cohen

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GAD

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Hey Gary,
Great story and contribution to our collective knowledge. On the issue of NJ, I'm a born and bred Jerseyite and kinda take umbrage with your dissing Joizee. :emmersed:

Perhaps you haven't been here in a while. :devilish:
 

Rich Cohen

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Rich, I expect you to be talking in Indian. Oh wait, I bet you likely can.

Yes, I can....not sure how many LTGers would understand what I'm saying....toying with the idea of swearing, knowing I can get away with it. BTW, the Indian constitution recognizes 22 languages!
 

Walter Broes

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So the person I spoke to was not customs; it was UPS Customs Brokerage. My mistake for assuming otherwise. And I just got a bill for $40 for them to broker my item.

So basically UPS decided to clear the item as a broker on my behalf and couldn't figure out what he needed to know, so called me to get the information then charged be $40 for clearing the item for me.

Standard practice with UPS and Fedex here in Europe, the main reason I don't use them to ship from outside the EU. Whoever the carrier, we pay between 30 and 50 Euro import administration fee, and 21% of the price of the item (ànd the shipping!!!) import tax. Standard practice, when an item arrives through the mail, say USPS in the case of a shipment from the US, it arrives in customs, and depending on how busy they are, it can spend from a day or two up to a month or more in there. It's usually not thàt bad, but it happens.

When UPS or Fedex are the carrier, they get the shipment through customs, (that's where the broker part comes in), so it clears customs the same day. That's kind of nice, of course, but they usually charge quite a bit more than the $40 you've had to pay. I never have anything sent over that's so urgent that I can't wait the extra week or ten days it takes when customs handles it without the speedy "brokerage" UPS provides.
 
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