What kind of tuners are on John Lennon's Guild starfire XII?

walrus

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The web site below agrees with "Waverly open back". I've never seen photo of the back of the headstock though, there's none in the book "Beatles Gear", either.

http://www.thebeatlesgear.com/guild.html

However, just an interesting discovery, this site also has a photo of Lennon with the Starfire XII that I've never seen before:

Lennon Guild Starfire XII 3.jpg

And then I found another one I've never seen!


Screenshot_2020-02-24 John Lennon on Instagram “GUILD STARFIRE XII CUSTOM 12-STRING, 1966⁣.jpg

These match up with the one photo that I have seen (and that has been posted here on LTG) from the same day:

Lennon Guild Starfire XII.jpg

walrus
 

walrus

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BTW, love the phone off the hook in the first photo! The good old days - "don't bother me"!

walrus
 

adorshki

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BTW, love the phone off the hook in the first photo! The good old days - "don't bother me"!

walrus
You sure maybe he didn't just call somebody up to say: "Here, you gotta hear this!"
:biggrin-new:
( I note it's in its cradle in the pic where he's handling the 45's)
 

Grassdog

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Nice find - more new unseen Beatles photos keep surfacing. Seems those guys were almost never able to escape being photographed no matter where they went.
 

walrus

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You sure maybe he didn't just call somebody up to say: "Here, you gotta hear this!"

Huh. That's actually possible, isn't it? In the days of reel to reel tape, that might have been a quick way to share music.

walrus
 

SFIV1967

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But was Guild using those in 1967?
It was a 1966 one, not 1967. Anyway, the Starfire XII came with the 6 in a row Japanese tuners.
But since the John Lennon model had gold hardware that was no option I'd say, as those Japanese tuners only came in Nickel. (Edit: I am wrong, see Hans posts below!)
And the golden Grover Rotomatic as used on the Starfire VI were no option for 12 strings.
Hard to say what tuners those are. Maybe they got a golden set of the earlier Kluson 6 in a row? (Edit: No, see Hans posts below.)

Here's the best picture of those tuners I found:


Unbenannt.JPG

Ralf
 
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adorshki

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Huh. That's actually possible, isn't it? In the days of reel to reel tape, that might have been a quick way to share music.

walrus

It also reminded me at the time a lot of audiophiles believed reel-to-reel was the ne plus ultra of audio fidelity.
And for the Beatles probably a necessity to listen to various takes of stuff at home or even for their demo takes..
At the time though I suspect your guess was actually right, since '68 was supposed to be a particularly alienated year for John.
And while British phones could be unplugged from the wall socket, at least one type featured a mandatory separate ringer and it would actually ring even if the phone was disconnected.
Maybe the way to disable that was to leave it off the hook.
And maybe for John the "off hook" tone turned out to be an inspiration for meditation, like a mantra:
"Jai Guru Deva Om"
:glee:
 
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dapmdave

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It also reminded me at the time a lot of audiophiles believed reel-to-reel was the ne plus ultra of audio fidelity.
:glee:

I was thinking that perhaps in that one photo he was using several reel-to-reel machines as a very basic means to multi-track something.
 

walrus

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I was thinking that perhaps in that one photo he was using several reel-to-reel machines as a very basic means to multi-track something.

I agree that's a distinct possibility. Working on "Revolution #9, perhaps? :nightmare:

walrus
 

walrus

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And for the Beatles probably a necessity to listen to various takes of stuff at home or even for their demo takes.

They were know for taking demos home all the time, they each had a tape machine at home (except maybe Ringo). This habit gave us the backwards vocals on "Rain", among other things:

From an interview in 1980: "I got home from the studio and I was stoned out of my mind on marijuana and, as I usually do, I listened to what I'd recorded that day. Somehow I got it on backwards and I sat there, transfixed, with the earphones on, with a big hash joint. I ran in the next day and said, 'I know what to do with it, I know ... Listen to this!' So I made them all play it backwards. The fade is me actually singing backwards with the guitars going backwards. [Singing backwards] Sharethsmnowthsmeaness ... [Laughter] That one was the gift of God, of Jah, actually, the god of marijuana, right? So Jah gave me that one!".

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walrus

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These were maybe the reel to reel machines they recorded the Esher demos on (about this time)?

Well, as Al said no way to know for sure. But if we assume the photos above are in Lennon's house, then it seems unlikely since the Esther demos were recorded as George's house. And he definitely has his own recording system.

walrus
 

Quantum Strummer

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At least some of Lennon's Esher demos have multitracked vocals. I suspect he brought them to George's place already completed. IMO it made sense at the time to use a pair of 2-track machines for this. Pete Townshend worked this way prior to getting an 8-track.

-Dave-
 

walrus

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The story is they did it all live with acoustic guitars at George's house, but of course no one else was there to prove anything!

From 'The Beatles Bible':

The end of May, 1968, actual date is unclear: the Beatles meet up at Kinfauns, George Harrison’s bungalow in Esher. Just back from India, gearing up to go hit Abbey Road and start their next album, the lads bang out some rough acoustic tunes into George’s newfangled Ampex reel-to-reel tape deck. The result is one of their weirdest and loveliest unreleased recordings: the Esher demos. There’s nothing else in their music quite like this. Most of the 27 songs ended up on the White Album, yet there’s none of that record’s tension and dread. At Esher, they’re having fun; they don’t realize all the tortures they’ll inflict on each other making the White Album. Instead, it’s a moment of jovial, intimate warmth – for almost the last time, you can hear they’re still in love with being Beatles together.

It is possible that not all of the demos were recorded at Kinfauns, and it has been speculated that some were recorded alone by the songs’ composers. Alternatively, previously-made recordings may have been brought to Harrison’s house for overdubbing, but, again, this is far from clear.

walrus
 

Darryl Hattenhauer

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As usual, SFIV1967 has found the answer (I think). The close up shows that the tuner buttons on Lennon's guitar are metal and concave. The only kind of buttons I can find for for those variables are the stock Japanese and Kluson 6-on-a-plate. (So we can rule out Waverly and Grover.) Also, Guild was using Klusons (though openback) on 12ers at this time.

Since the Klusons are higher end, I'll bet that's what they put on John's guitar, which has J Lo ("higher end") everything. Since the stock Japanese jobs come out about 1966,they might not have even been around when Guild made this Guitar. Also, this 1964 312 has the Kluson 6-on-a-plate: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-Guild...0086:g:z4sAAOSwiX1eUX9U&LH_ItemCondition=3000
 
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hansmoust

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Anyway, the Starfire XII came with the 6 in a row Japanese tuners. But since the John Lennon model had gold hardware that was no option I'd say, as those Japanese tuners only came in Nickel.
And the golden Grover Rotomatic as used on the Starfire VI were no option for 12 strings.
Hard to say what tuners those are. Maybe they got a golden set of the earlier Kluson 6 in a row?

The standard 6-in-a-row Japanese tuners were chrome, not nickel. The guitar is question was set up with a Japanese set in gold.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 
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