1969 D 40

[mclkar54]

In conversing with a friend.
He owns a 1969 F 40..However the neck appears to be more like a D 35. Is it possible this came from Guild this way.
.He is the original owner.This would be the Era of what's called Spanish heel neck mount.

 

[PreacherBob]

In conversing with a friend.
He owns a 1969 F 40..However the neck appears to be more like a D 35. Is it possible this came from Guild this way.
.He is the original owner.This would be the Era of what's called Spanish heel neck mount.

Is it a one piece or three piece neck? To my knowledge all of the F40s came with a three piece neck with the center stripe, early 50’s thru the early 80’s. Some had mahogany/maple/mahogany, others maple/mahogany/maple. My two are the latter. The F40 headstock face plates had the chesterfield logos, fingerboards had square block MOP inlays. I don’t believe the D35 ever had a three piece neck, chesterfield faceplates or inlays. Also I think in the early to mid 70s was the F40 body changed from a narrower OM kind of body to a deeper mini jumbo Shape.
I’m not aware Guild ever using a Spanish heel construction, maybe on early Mark series classical nylons, but not that I’m aware of. It would be obvious looking inside. It either has a traditional neck square block, or a U shaped tongue where a neck block would normally be. Of course it is possible someone has altered the guitar, we come across that here quite regularly.

 

[SFIV1967]

This would be the Era of what's called Spanish heel neck mount.

Are we talking F-40 or D-40? You used both names in the headline and the text.

Also, I'm not aware of an "Era of what's called Spanish heel neck mount" for Guild guitars. What is this? Not sure where such info comes from. They had normal dovetails as far as I know. A Spanish heel has no neckblock, so the neck contains the entire neckblock like on true Spanish classical guitars.
All Guild Mark guitars however had also dovetails I believe. (EDIT: I was wrong here...see post #5 below)

There were some D-40 with a kind of fan bracing however as experiment in the 60's. Hans had called them "a variation on fan bracing with some elements that we know from traditional X-bracing. Guild did this for a while around 1964."

Best is sharing some pictures.

Ralf

 

[mclkar54]

Is it a one piece or three piece neck? To my knowledge all of the F40s came with a three piece neck with the center stripe, early 50’s thru the early 80’s. Some had mahogany/maple/mahogany, others maple/mahogany/maple. My two are the latter. The F40 headstock face plates had the chesterfield logos, fingerboards had square block MOP inlays. I don’t believe the D35 ever had a three piece neck, chesterfield faceplates or inlays. Also I think in the early to mid 70s was the F40 body changed from a narrower OM kind of body to a deeper mini jumbo Shape.
I’m not aware Guild ever using a Spanish heel construction, maybe on early Mark series classical nylons, but not that I’m aware of. It would be obvious looking inside. It either has a traditional neck square block, or a U shaped tongue where a neck block would normally be. Of course it is possible someone has altered the guitar, we come across that here quite regularly.

My apologies. Need to check my typing . It is a D 40. single piece neck.

 

[BradHK]

All Guild Mark guitars however had also dovetails I believe

If my memory serves (and it may not this morning as I am only on my first coffee), I thought the Mark I-IV had a dovetail and the V-VII had a Spanish heel.

 

[mclkar54]

You could be correct. I'm more curious as to the neck on his D 40. It's the same neck as my D 35. Seems strange

 

[chazmo]

You could be correct. I'm more curious as to the neck on his D 40. It's the same neck as my D 35. Seems strange

I'm not sure what the answer is, mclkar54, but my recollection is that D-40s have a three piece neck. Even if I'm right, that may not apply to all eras. Does he have a Chesterfield on the headstock? Do you know what year his guitar is? We could also use some pictures.

Oh, and there were certainly not any Spanish heel necks on the flattop (steel) acoustics. They were all dovetail, except if we're talking post-Westerly, which it sounds like we're not.

 

[mclkar54]

Are we talking F-40 or D-40? You used both names in the headline and the text.

Also, I'm not aware of an "Era of what's called Spanish heel neck mount" for Guild guitars. What is this? Not sure where such info comes from. They had normal dovetails as far as I know. A Spanish heel has no neckblock, so the neck contains the entire neckblock like on true Spanish classical guitars. All Guild Mark guitars however had also dovetails I believe.

There were some D-40 with a kind of fan bracing however as experiment in the 60's (?).

Best is sharing some pictures.

Ralf

It is a D 40. But it's got the same neck as my D 35. And yes there were some Spanish heel neck type installs. But truly, I'm not interested in that .just the notion of the d35 neck being on his d40.if he brings it by again I'll get a Pic. Thank you

 

[chazmo]

Can you please clarify what you mean by a Spanish heel neck, mclkar? Are you talking about the way the joinery looks, or are you talking about the way it was actually joined?

 

[mclkar54]

I'm not sure what the answer is, mclkar54, but my recollection is that D-40s have a three piece neck. Even if I'm right, that may not apply to all eras. Does he have a Chesterfield on the headstock? Do you know what year his guitar is? We could also use some pictures.

Oh, and there were certainly not any Spanish heel necks on the flattop (steel) acoustics. They were all dovetail, except if we're talking post-Westerly, which it sounds like we're not.

It is a 1969 model D 40. With a single piece neck, exactly like my D 35.sorry ,I don't have pics, he took the guitar home after I made a couple repairs to the bridge.

 

[chazmo]

Cool. That era of guitar is wonderful! I think it's highly possible that a D-40 could have a one-piece neck from that era, but again, I don't know for sure. Chesterfield????

 

[mclkar54]

Yes chesterfield on head stock

 

[mclkar54]

Can you please clarify what you mean by a Spanish heel neck, mclkar? Are you talking about the way the joinery looks, or are you talking about the way it was actually joined?

The actual joining. However after reading more of mr.mousts book, it would be in the post westerly Era. My mistake .and as an experimental phase.

 

[chazmo]

The actual joining. However after reading more of mr.mousts book, it would be in the post westerly Era. My mistake .and as an experimental phase.

May I ask what model(s) you are referring to (if you know)? What I'm getting at is that I don't think that's correct information, mclkar... In other words, I don't think any Spanish heel was ever used on a Guild flattop. Just trying to clarify.

Oh, and the Chesterfield pretty much distinguishes the D-35 from the D-40 (so your friend's guitar is a D-40). Also, some early D-35s had mahogany soundboards, which D-40 never had.

 

[Hobbesickles]

What year is your D-35? The ones produced in Hoboken in 1968 and 1969 have the black headstock veneer with the Guild logo inlayed which is similar to the D-40s of the same era. My '68 D-35 has a one piece mahogany neck.

 

[adorshki]

You could be correct. I'm more curious as to the neck on his D 40. It's the same neck as my D 35. Seems strange

Probably built when they were changing from 3-pc to 1-pc necks although I thought the change was later..they lost the chesterfield by 1966, as documented on the cover of Richi Havens' Mixed Bag, relased in '66, so the D40 on the cover can't be any later tahn a '66. And you probably think it's a spanish heel because it's not "stacked" like most flattops. And you may have misinterpreted Hans' book, they never put a spanish heel in a flattop, only a Mark series classical, which weren't made after Westerly.

I'm not sure what the answer is, mclkar54, but my recollection is that D-40s have a three piece neck. Even if I'm right, that may not apply to all eras. Does he have a Chesterfield on the headstock?

Original D40's had the 3-pc and chesterfield, chesterfield was gone by around '69, 3-pc neck by sometime in '70's, (not noted in Han's book)
3-pc necks did return on Traditionals but don't recall when, think it was NH.

 

[adorshki]

Oh, and the Chesterfield pretty much distinguishes the D-35 from the D-40 (so your friend's guitar is a D-40). Also, some early D-35s had mahogany soundboards, which D-40 never had.

Source on 'hog soundboard ref?

Only ever heard of that on D25 family including D15/D16/D4.
And the chesterfield is only a sure sign of a D40, but not all D40's wear 'em. So not a foolproof ID method.

 

[chazmo]

Sorry, what is your question, Al?

 

[mclkar54]

Sorry, what is your question, Al?

My customer has a 1969 D 40, but It has the same neck as my D35 single piece neck.
My question is ,is that an uncommon change for guild at that time,or was it a common
Change. As every D 40 I've seen has been a 3 piece neck.

 

[chazmo]

( @mclkar54 , I was asking @adorshki what he was asking me, not you. )