1974 D-25: is this mahogany or spruce?

[loess]

Hey LTG folks,

Anyone wanna help me narrow this one down? Looks like mahogany to me but I'm not very well-versed in distinguishing between 'hog and spruce. Also, seller says it has a rare finish that was called "pumpkin patch"; not sure where that information comes from (?). I'm afraid three cell phone camera pics are all I can offer at the moment:

I don't have the money to be spending at all but I might be able to rationalize it if this is one of the more rare arched back mahogany D-25's...

Adam

 

[GardMan]

(From the out of focus pics) That looks like mahogany to me (but I've been wrong before)...and '74 would be in the right time frame. Never heard of "pumpkin patch" as a finish choice... For comparison, there's a '73 flat-backed all mahogany D-25on eBay (with cosmetic issues and in need of a bridge reglue).

 

[devellis]

Hard to tell from the pictures. The name suggests an orange tint, which suggests a light wood, which may mean dyed spruce. The headstock veneer looks more like what I think of as stained mahogany. Raw mahogany can actually be a sort of pinkish-beige and is often treated with a darkening stain. So, whether mahogany or spruce, it's probably been stained. There should be a more visible grain running the length of the top, with narrow, interspersed darker lines, if it's spruce but different spruces (and different pieces of the same type) will vary in how visible the grain is and the stain can make it even harder to tell. It might be easier to tell by looking at the underside of the top with a mirror. Mahogany doesn't typically have the grain pattern of spruce, with wider light bands (summer wood) separated by narrower, darker bands (winter wood). But, as I said, not all spruce has visible grain; but I'd guess a piece of spruce that got stained would be less likely to have a smooth, grainless texture because that would be a primo piece for a natural finish. So the grain lines are worth looking for.

 

[adorshki]

Ok I think I got this backwards recently but if it's spruce shouldn't it say "D25M" (for mahogany colored stain) on the label? Originally I was thinking the "M" designated the mahogany tops... "Pumpkin Patch" ? Sorry, I can't believe that one...see if the label helps...there's also a "B" for brown which someone recently thought was a "P" just because it was faint on the label they were looking at.

 

[dreadnut]

Almost looks like a hog top arch back to me, one of the rarer "transition" models, the stripey top looks like 'hog to me. I can say with near certainty that "pumpkin patch" was not an option at that time...

 

[cjd-player]

Man, I hate it when people don't cut off the strings at the tuners. :evil:

Hard to tell for sure from the pics, but looking at the brighter areas around the bridge, I think that is a spruce top. I just don't see the open cell (porous) structure of mahogany there. Under a finish, the pores would be filled, but they typically show up darker.

My $.02 given at half price. :mrgreen:

I'm charging $.01 for the comment about the strings. :wink:

 

[jazzercizer]

Hey LTG folks,

Anyone wanna help me narrow this one down? Looks like mahogany to me but I'm not very well-versed in distinguishing between 'hog and spruce. Also, seller says it has a rare finish that was called "pumpkin patch"; not sure where that information comes from (?). I'm afraid three cell phone camera pics are all I can offer at the moment:

I don't have the money to be spending at all but I might be able to rationalize it if this is one of the more rare arched back mahogany D-25's...

Adam

Hi Gang!
I'm new here (I was turned on to this website thanks to some good people on the jazz guitar forum, and after I bought my X 170), but I thought I would chime in...that guitar looks identical to my '73 DA25 M (the "M" stands for Mahogany). I also have a K&K Pure Western pickup system with my guitar...

 

[jazzercizer]

Hey LTG folks,

Anyone wanna help me narrow this one down? Looks like mahogany to me but I'm not very well-versed in distinguishing between 'hog and spruce. Also, seller says it has a rare finish that was called "pumpkin patch"; not sure where that information comes from (?). I'm afraid three cell phone camera pics are all I can offer at the moment:

I don't have the money to be spending at all but I might be able to rationalize it if this is one of the more rare arched back mahogany D-25's...

Adam

Hi Gang!
I'm new here (I was turned on to this website thanks to some good people on the jazz guitar forum, and after I bought my X 170), but I thought I would chime in...that guitar looks identical to my '73 DA25 M (the "M" stands for Mahogany). I also have a K&K Pure Western pickup system with my guitar...

PS: I should add that I did a lot of research before purchasing this guitar and the 'M' does, in fact, stand for Mahogany. Someone told me the GAD25's were stained spruce...hope this helps.

 

[JerryR]

Man, I hate it when people don't cut off the strings at the tuners. :evil:

Oh Carl, you're so picky - you'll be going on about tuners clipped to the headstock next - or was that another thread :wink:

 

[dreadnut]

Actually, the " M" also stood for mahogany as in "Mahogany stained spruce top", "C" was "Cherry stained spruce top", etc. I have a '76 "M" with a spruce top. If this is a '74, it's right during the transition period where it could easily be an arched back with a 'hog body, and that's what it looks like to me.

That's my story and I'm stickin' with it. 8)

 

[adorshki]

I'm new here (I was turned on to this website thanks to some good people on the jazz guitar forum, and after I bought my X 170), but I thought I would chime in...that guitar looks identical to my '73 DA25 M (the "M" stands for Mahogany). PS: I should add that I did a lot of research before purchasing this guitar and the 'M' does, in fact, stand for Mahogany. Someone told me the GAD25's were stained spruce...hope this helps.

Hi Jazzerciser: Is your guitar a flatback? If so then it's mahogany, that's all they made the flatbacks with. If it's an archback, then I think your D25M is actually a spruce top with mahogany color stain. During this very short transitional period to archbacks Guild made some mahogany topped archbacks (pretty rare) before standardizing on spruce tops with a mahogany color stain. In those guitars the "M" stood for the color. The one we're looking at is arched and that's why the questions are arising....
I just refreshed my memory from this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17708&p=189558&hilit=d25m#p189558
The GAD's are a completely different animal, they are chinese built guitars from this century and yes they all have spruce tops.
By the way, WELCOME ABOARD! Sorry to sound so pedantic!

 

[jazzercizer]

I'm new here (I was turned on to this website thanks to some good people on the jazz guitar forum, and after I bought my X 170), but I thought I would chime in...that guitar looks identical to my '73 DA25 M (the "M" stands for Mahogany). PS: I should add that I did a lot of research before purchasing this guitar and the 'M' does, in fact, stand for Mahogany. Someone told me the GAD25's were stained spruce...hope this helps.

Hi Jazzerciser: Is your guitar a flatback? If so then it's mahogany, that's all they made the flatbacks with. If it's an archback, then I think your D25M is actually a spruce top with mahogany color stain. During this very short transitional period to archbacks Guild made some mahogany topped archbacks (pretty rare) before standardizing on spruce tops with a mahogany color stain. In those guitars the "M" stood for the color. The one we're looking at is arched and that's why the questions are arising....
I just refreshed my memory from this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17708&p=189558&hilit=d25m#p189558
The GAD's are a completely different animal, they are chinese built guitars from this century and yes they all have spruce tops.
By the way, WELCOME ABOARD! Sorry to sound so pedantic!

K you guys win Mine is an arch back. Spruce or Mahogany, still a sweet guitar!

 

[adorshki]

K you guys win Mine is an arch back. Spruce or Mahogany, still a sweet guitar!

All us D25 owners get kind of funny about 'em (see my sig)... :lol:
You might want to take a look inside, if possible, at the unstained wood of the top. See if it matches the color of the back which is NEVER anything BUT mahogany. It COULD be mahogany but if it says "D25M" on the label it's 99% probably spruce. Just to really mix things up the factory wasn't 100% consistent in its labelling either! :lol: I'm still wondering if some of the mahogany topped archbacks might have been labelled as "M"'s during that time frame.

 

[jazzercizer]

K you guys win Mine is an arch back. Spruce or Mahogany, still a sweet guitar!

All us D25 owners get kind of funny about 'em (see my sig)... :lol:
You might want to take a look inside, if possible, at the unstained wood of the top. See if it matches the color of the back which is NEVER anything BUT mahogany. It COULD be mahogany but if it says "D25M" on the label it's 99% probably spruce. Just to really mix things up the factory wasn't 100% consistent in its labelling either! :lol: I'm still wondering if some of the mahogany topped archbacks might have been labelled as "M"'s during that time frame.

Thanks. I'll check it out! I like the fact that you name your guitars also. I'm very attached to mine too

 

[bluesypicky]

Hi Loess!
I would bet on spruce just to play along.... and looking at the stripes on the wood.... and given the year 74 when almost every D25 had converted to a spruce top....
And unlike cdj, no charge!!! :lol:

 

[killdeer43]

My D25M has an arched back with a mahogany-stained spruce top.
This one appears to have an arched back and it really looks like a mahogany top to me. At least it does in the photos.

My two bits (adjusted for inflation) :wink:
Joe

 

[loess]

A thousand thanks to all who have replied! I really do thank the stars that there are kind and helpful Guild geeks like y'all out there that'll take the time to share your encyclopedic knowledge of this stuff.

My budget is super-mega tight right now, but I've got the go ahead from my better half to at least go and play this thing. I'm gonna sleep on it and call the fella tomorrow to set a time up.

In the meantime, he's posted a Craigslist ad with more photos and the serial 102267 confirming that it is indeed a '74.

(Gimme a couple'a days to get over and pick a little on this hoss before re-posting the link in the "ebay/gbase/craigslist offerings" subforum, eh? I promise I'll report back :wink: )

 

[cjd-player]

Hi Loess!
I would bet on spruce just to play along.... and looking at the stripes on the wood.... and given the year 74 when almost every D25 had converted to a spruce top....
And unlike cdj, no charge!!! :lol:

There's always someone undercutting your price. :roll:

 

[geoguy]

Ok . . . that c-list ad lists the s/n as 102267.

Given the description of the instrument for sale as having a "pumpkin" color, and the fact that I have an archback D-25 with a pumpkin-colored mahogany top & s/n 105XXX . . . I'm guessing that the one for sale is also mahogany topped.

Good luck with your prospective purchase!

 

[adorshki]

I like the fact that you name your guitars also. I'm very attached to mine too

Makes it easier to scold 'em when they couldn't wait for me to get home and take 'em for a walk..... :lol: