3/5th of a Mile in 10 Seconds

[Happy Face]

I'm hoping that I convinced our lead singer that we should try to add "3/5th of a Mile in 10 Seconds" to our setlist. Thankfully we have the vocal harmonies ability to pull it off.

But, I floated it up there when I was in a weekend mellow mood and listening to "Bless It's Pointed Little Head." That's a fairly diffilcult bit of bass playing to try and mimic. So I figured I should lsiten to the other or earlier versions, right?

Funny enough, it's hard to find earlier versions, at least in my JA CD collection, which includes a bunch of what were once called "pirate recordings" and such.

But was a real EYE-OPENER, was the bass playing on the CD called "Jefferson Airplane: Return to the Matrix 02/01/68"

The bass part is really rudimentary, in contrast to the Bless It's Awful Little Pointed Head version.

So much so that it should be interesting to those on this forum who ask how to recreate the Jack Casady sound.

 

[idealassets]

In my opinion, if you can come close to doing any JA song well, any audience would be more than pleased. I don't see many groups doing anything by JA, they didn't back during the 60's or 70's either. It would be the overall sound that would make the song more than any individual component in the band, just in my opinion.

As another thought I have played with some bass players that liked to do too much on the bass. So if a guy were to play some Jack Casiday half way well, you may be regarded that you are being discreet in your bass style for the overall band effect. Unless you did Saturday Afternoon (After Bathing at Baxter's). In that case the bass work would have to be on. I'm just thinking out loud here.

I am hoping that some JA bass players come along in this post. I have been a JA fan since I was about 14. My best attempt at doing anything JA would be an close to exact version of Spencer's drumming, and a close version of Paul Kantner's Ric 12 string, but my bass is sacked, due to always few more 12 string songs to perform.

How's your M85 holding up? Do you currently play any JA material on a Starfire bass?

Craig

 

[idealassets]

Funny enough, it's hard to find earlier versions, at least in my JA CD collection

Maybe I'm not reading this right, but 3/5 Mile was originally on Surrealistic Pillow, or did you really want a jam buildup intro on the song?

CG

 

[Happy Face]

Funny enough, it's hard to find earlier versions, at least in my JA CD collection

Maybe I'm not reading this right, but 3/5 Mile was originally on Surrealistic Pillow, or did you really want a jam buildup intro on the song?

CG

Either way is fine with me!

"As another thought I have played with some bass players that liked to do too much on the bass."

If you learned to play listening to the two Jacks & John in the late 60s, you may well have a "busy" style. I certainly used to. Once when I joined a new band and was working with the drummer, he said "I'd like to tape up two of your fingers so you couldn't play so much." The cure is to play in a funk band.

 

[fronobulax]

We need mellowgerman to chime in. Or mgod. Or both.

I play several JA bass lines but do not perform any of them so my commentary is based entirely on the legend in my own mind. There is some overlap between Surrealistic Pillow and Pointed Head. I have found the latter really doesn't make sense to me until I have learned the studio version from the former. I don't claim to have a extensive collection of JA recorded live, but I have noticed that there are several cases where the bass line is evolving in my limited sample - Other Side of this Life sticks out particularly since you can almost tell when it was recorded based upon the bass. Bottom line is that at my playing level, starting with the studio recording works best for me.

Jack Casady. Jack Bruce. John Entwhistle? John Paul Jones?

Can you get the woody growl that is often the first approximation to a JA bass sound from the M85 or are you going to rethink your aversion (a bit strong of a word I know) to Starfires?

 

[idealassets]

If you learned to play listening to the two Jacks & John in the late 60s, you may well have a "busy" style

If you can play the lines just like Jack Casaday that would be fantastic in my book. Especially the early material right up through 1972. I would recognize that bass playing in a second.

Do you own "The Bass Guitar" instructional CD by Jack Casaday. In it he shows all his chords and good bass runs that only Jack could come up with. I think I had to pay $35 to get it, but worth it.

I refrain to admit it, but my drumming was patterned after Hendrix, which could be noted for the drumming following the lead guitar, and Noel Redding being very routine. I recall for instance many nights playing Jessica by the Allman brothers with an excessively busy bass player in the band, no problem I just followed the lead guitar runs (no keyboard) and let the bass player run all over the place. It was a simple formula that worked OK.

 

[fronobulax]

Do you own "The Bass Guitar" instructional CD by Jack Casaday. In it he shows all his chords and good bass runs that only Jack could come up with. I think I had to pay $35 to get it, but worth it.

Do you mean The Bass Guitar of Jack Casady? I'm not aware of any other Casady DVD and your description is not how I would describe it, although we are probably in violent agreement that it is something most bass players could learn from.

 

[idealassets]

Do you mean The Bass Guitar of Jack Casady?

Yes I suppose so, But the title on the side of the CD sais "The Bass Guitar", then after the title and inside a small orange rectangle in letters about 1/8 the size of the title it says "of Jack Casady".

The interpretation of his bass playing on the DVD doesn't really matter to me, since I spend my time on 12 string, and leave the bass opportunity for the folks that really like it.

 

[fronobulax]

Do you mean The Bass Guitar of Jack Casady?

Yes I suppose so, But the title on the side of the CD sais "The Bass Guitar", then after the title and inside a small orange rectangle in letters about 1/8 the size of the title it says "of Jack Casady".

The interpretation of his bass playing on the DVD doesn't really matter to me, since I spend my time on 12 string, and leave the bass opportunity for the folks that really like it.

Are you sure you're not a lawyer? The answer was both accurate and unhelpful.

Does the cover look like this, since you clearly did not click through the link above?

 

[jte]

IMO, on key aspect of Jack's playing especially live is that he's always listening, reacting to, and prodding the others on stage with him. So, a lovingly crafted regurgitation of a specific recording of an JA song is really not getting the point of the JA. So, listen to as many different versions of the songs as you can, put them all together, and and create music, not a static reproduction.

John

 

[idealassets]

Are you sure you're not a lawyer?

Yes, I'm sure I'm not, I was an engineer actually, a lot of it in biotech products. That DVD is the one. Thanks for posting the image, since I should really have done it.

I just located this, with our hero Jack Casady at 1:00 into the interview, where he states to Dick Clark that for $100,000 he would wear a suit and work a 9 to 5 job. That was definitely a bit of change in 1967. I also like Grace's nun outfit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klRoSj0nYmE

 

[Happy Face]

IMO, on key aspect of Jack's playing especially live is that he's always listening, reacting to, and prodding the others on stage with him. So, a lovingly crafted regurgitation of a specific recording of an JA song is really not getting the point of the JA. So, listen to as many different versions of the songs as you can, put them all together, and and create music, not a static reproduction.

John

Yeah, that's why I was tracking down as many versions as I could. And even then, since we are not a tribute band, I'll play in his style rather than learn it note for note.

But that said, often as not the cover bands don't have the luxury of "getting the point of JA". Staying true to that ideal often guarantees that your jam band stays in the practice room and only plays the occasional summer party at a bandmate's house. Which is fine if that's what you want, but I still like to play out.

So if we can play something interesting outside of the usual cover band fare, why not??

(The fights I have to reject the usual pablum songs as in "But everyone loves Brown Sugar" or whatever are unrelenting. It's a tricky balance.)

Anyway, I thought that the difference between the two versions was remarkable.

 

[adorshki]

IMO, on key aspect of Jack's playing especially live is that he's always listening, reacting to, and prodding the others on stage with him. So, listen to as many different versions of the songs as you can, put them all together, and and create music, not a static reproduction.
John

Yeah, that's why I was tracking down as many versions as I could. And even then, since we're not a tribute band, I'll play in his style rather than learn it note for note.
But that said, often as not the cover bands don't have the luxury of "getting the point of JA". Staying true to that ideal.... Anyway, I thought that the difference between the two versions was remarkable.

In previous discussions of "Jack's sound", it seems that inevitably we get around to an agreement that the player is much more important than his equipment, so your use of the phrase "in his style", tells me that you're on to the "real secret".
I think it was Mgod who tells a story of being at Jack's place one day and having the opportunity to play his bass, (or was it that he memorized all his equipment settings and went home an duplicated 'em), but he still didn't "sound like Jack"? Either way the point's the same, and pretty clear. :wink:
Another interesting corroboration for the perceptions in the 2 quotes I chose rom JTE and Happyface in a quote from "The Jefferson Airplane and the San Francisco Sound" by Ralph Gleason, the music critic for the SF Chronicle and an early fan, instrumental in getting their name in front of a wider local audience during their seminal period just after Grace joined.
Anyway, I forget exactly who it was but I'm pretty sure it was either Grace or Jorma who said their performing philososphy to prevent getting bored with the endless repetition of concert performances was "never play it the same way twice".
That's stuck with me for about 40 years. :lol:

 

[Happy Face]

Adorshki - That boredom quote sure makes sense! Otherwise performing because yet another dull job. (Like playing in a pit orchestra for a musical.)

JTE - Hope I didn't come across as a smartass in my reply to you. On re-reading it reminded me of those annoying posts on TB where someone says "If you played out as much as me you'd understand why I need a microamp" or whatever.

 

[mellowgerman]

I'm assuming you already saw this one... not the best recording but it's one of my favorites. I uploaded it to youtube a little over a year ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ1UMacc0aw

on a side note, I have quite a few live cuts. which dates/versions do you have?

 

[Happy Face]

Thanks for reminding me Mellowest One. And then, there on the right panel was the slap on the forehead reminder of the Woodtock version. Again, a big contrast between the two versions. I do love those Woodstock cuts.

 

[adorshki]

Always had a soft spot for "She Has Funny Cars". Seems like if you're going for "3/5 of a Mile" that one would be an easy companion piece.
But my favorite album is and always will be "Baxter's" especially Jack and Jorma's instrumental suite.
If you dont have it, trust me, you'll love it.
Also worthy of note is the live version of "You'n me 'n Pooneil" on Live at Fillmore East 1969.
Jack's solo just screams.