A brokered deal that broke down with the best of intentions

[Thunderface]

The saga of the '86 sunburst G37 has taken a new twist.

First, the condensed history. I originally posted a question about pricing this guitar for a colleague of mine who wanted to sell it. I got lots of good advice -- thank you my acoustic bretheren -- and one among us who expressed interest in buying it. (Note -- Out of respect to him, the buyer shall remain anonymous unless he decides to make his identity known). We traded e-mails and after seeking advice about careful packing for shipment, sent the guitar along. It arrived safely and, after some initial concerns about the neck angle, buyer test drove it for a few weeks and took it in to a repair shop to be checked out.

An inspection confirmed that a neck reset was necessary. Making matters worse was the discovery that the X-bracing is beginning to give way and the top is collapsing. The buyer told me this and I was horrified because I didn't know what to look for and because I would never want to sell a bum guitar to anyone, especially to one of us.

So I immediately agreed to refund his money and pay for shipping to have the guitar sent back to me. I figured it was the right thing and the only thing to do. And I kick myself for not knowing enough about the guitar in the first place to know it had faults. But the entire process deal process in regards to dealing with the buyer was fantastic. Thanks again for being understanding and cooperative and allowing me to make it right. The lesson learned here for me is to stick with what I know, which is electrics, especially when it comes to selling.

The fate of the returned G37 is yet to be determined. If any possible repairs are cost-prohibitive, then I'm going to retire it and hang it on the wall so at least I can admire its beauty.

 

[krysh]

it's a beauty. why not repair it and rehearse for an unplugged set?

 

[john_kidder]

That sounds as if you, an obviously honourable person, have ended up buying a guitar that may need substantial work? Where is your original colleague, the owner of the guitar, in this new transaction?

it's a fine-looking instrument, though. A neck reset and bracing repair may not be so hard to do, and might then provide (whoever) the owner (is) with long-term satisfaction.

Best of luck - it's hard to be in the middle of a deal that didn't work out just right. One can end up with all sorts of unanticipated obligations.

 

[Thunderface]

I should have pointed out that the colleague in question was equally horrified and asked that I extend his apologies to the buyer as well, which I thought was a classy move. As it stands right now, we haven't worked out a plan for repairs yet, but we'll come up with something.

 

[twocorgis]

I should have pointed out that the colleague in question was equally horrified and asked that I extend his apologies to the buyer as well, which I thought was a classy move. As it stands right now, we haven't worked out a plan for repairs yet, but we'll come up with something.

I'd certainly not hang that beauty on the wall and never play it. That guitar sure looks like it's worth fixing to me! If I had any GAS funds left right now I'd offer the seller the selling price less $400, and have my man do a neck reset and whatever else was needed. I have always liked the G37, and bursts seem to grow on me more every day for some odd reason. :roll:

 

[taabru45]

I should have pointed out that the colleague in question was equally horrified and asked that I extend his apologies to the buyer as well, which I thought was a classy move. As it stands right now, we haven't worked out a plan for repairs yet, but we'll come up with something.

I'd certainly not hang that beauty on the wall and never play it. That guitar sure looks like it's worth fixing to me! If I had any GAS funds left right now I'd offer the seller the selling price less $400, and have my man do a neck reset and whatever else was needed. I always like the G37, and bursts seem to grow on me more every day for some odd reason. :roll:

Sandy......don't be spendin' all you're money on Chinese.... :lol: :lol: Steffan

 

[drive-south]

The G37 looks a lot like my D30. except for the wider headstock. One problem with Guilds and Gibsons is the guitar is finished after the neck is attached, which makes a neck reset difficult.
Still, it would be a shame to retire that guitar to a wall hanger. Send to it Frank Ford and ask him to work his magic. It'll be worth it even if you end up spending more than blue book value.

drive-south

 

[southernGuild]

OUCH!!! Thats a tough one Thunder................But I agree with John K. You've handled this with dignity, respect, and honour. Cant ask for more than THAT.
Your actions there certainly speak well of you.
as to that guitar.......... yea, For Me,........I'd give it some time, and then put some cash aside toward a eventual FULL repair of her overall . Thats a good looking guitar, Looks like you'll be rewarded . The Amount of cash spent on repair DOES fade away over time , and You'll be left with an excellent guitar! :wink:

 

[twocorgis]

Sandy......don't be spendin' all you're money on Chinese.... :lol: :lol: Steffan

Darn Steffan, I typed that too fast.

There, I fixed it! :lol:

 

[taabru45]

There are a few of us here who R E A L L Y like Chinese...... :wink: (you know who you are) :lol: :lol: Steffan

 

[adorshki]

There are a few of us here who R E A L L Y like Chinese...... :wink: (you know who you are) :lol: :lol: Steffan

AS one of the Sinophile club founders to the other, what'd I miss, what'd I miss? He's already fixed it! :lol:

 

[West R Lee]

The saga of the '86 sunburst G37 has taken a new twist.

First, the condensed history. I originally posted a question about pricing this guitar for a colleague of mine who wanted to sell it. I got lots of good advice -- thank you my acoustic bretheren -- and one among us who expressed interest in buying it. (Note -- Out of respect to him, the buyer shall remain anonymous unless he decides to make his identity known). We traded e-mails and after seeking advice about careful packing for shipment, sent the guitar along. It arrived safely and, after some initial concerns about the neck angle, buyer test drove it for a few weeks and took it in to a repair shop to be checked out.

An inspection confirmed that a neck reset was necessary. Making matters worse was the discovery that the X-bracing is beginning to give way and the top is collapsing. The buyer told me this and I was horrified because I didn't know what to look for and because I would never want to sell a bum guitar to anyone, especially to one of us.

So I immediately agreed to refund his money and pay for shipping to have the guitar sent back to me. I figured it was the right thing and the only thing to do. And I kick myself for not knowing enough about the guitar in the first place to know it had faults. But the entire process deal process in regards to dealing with the buyer was fantastic. Thanks again for being understanding and cooperative and allowing me to make it right. The lesson learned here for me is to stick with what I know, which is electrics, especially when it comes to selling.

The fate of the returned G37 is yet to be determined. If any possible repairs are cost-prohibitive, then I'm going to retire it and hang it on the wall so at least I can admire its beauty.

I'll relate a little story that happened to me.

Several years ago, I bought a D55 from an eBay seller. Through eBay messaging I was able to get the sellers phone number and called him on a few occasions prior to our closing a deal on the D55. During one of our conversations, the seller, who lived in New York City, told me that the guitar had been kept on a stand in his living room. I asked what kind of heat he had in his apartment and he told me there was a space heater in that room. I asked for more pictures and he sent them. We struck a deal as I knew the bridge on the guitar was cracked.

The sound of that particular D55 never melted my butter, but I hung onto her for a couple of years. Then one day, a very dear and very old (80's) friend came by to visit that also happened to be a pretty accomplished guitarist. He absolutely loved the D55 and since she wasn't my cup of tea, he and I struck a deal. I sold him the guitar, a brand new deluxe case, and a copy of Hans book for the price I payed for the guitar....less shipping. All tolled probably worth $300-400 more than he payed. At the time I was also selling a DV52 and gave my friend a choice of guitars. He chose the D55.

Anyway, a while later, he decided to have the bridge repaired and had also developed a top crack. He asked me if I knew of a good Guild repairman. I paid to send the guitar to Scratch's guy in South Texas. That's when the bad, and embarrassing news hit.

You see, I' never looked inside the guitar :shock: ........cracked bridge, loose braces, cracks developing and cracks repaired...............I freaked :shock: :shock: ! Here I thought I was doing a good friend a favor, but had unintentionally misrepresented the guitar. I had no choice but to tell my friend of all that was wrong with the guitar, assure him that I had no prior knowledge and hope he believed me.

My friend was extremely gracious, paid for the repairs and Scratch was good enough to bring her back up on a return trip to East Texas. But I did learn a valuable lesson........that I will always check a guitar inside and out before selling. So you see, things like this do happen. I'm glad all parties are happy. You've done a good thing "Thunderface". Sometimes the right thing to do isn't the easist, but it's always the right thing.

West

 

[southernGuild]

[You've done a good thing "Thunderface". Sometimes the right thing to do isn't the easist, but it's always the right thing.

West[/quote]
:wink: Well said West.

 

[twocorgis]

Several years ago, I bought a D55 from an eBay seller. Through eBay messaging I was able to get the sellers phone number and called him on a few occasions prior to our closing a deal on the D55. During one of our conversations, the seller, who lived in New York City, told me that the guitar had been kept on a stand in his living room. I asked what kind of heat he had in his apartment and he told me there was a space heater in that room. I asked for more pictures and he sent them. We struck a deal as I knew the bridge on the guitar was cracked.

The sound of that particular D55 never melted my butter, but I hung onto her for a couple of years. Then one day, a very dear and very old (80's) friend came by to visit that also happened to be a pretty accomplished guitarist. He absolutely loved the D55 and since she wasn't my cup of tea, he and I struck a deal. I sold him the guitar, a brand new deluxe case, and a copy of Hans book for the price I payed for the guitar....less shipping. All tolled probably worth $300-400 more than he payed. At the time I was also selling a DV52 and gave my friend a choice of guitars. He chose the D55.

Anyway, a while later, he decided to have the bridge repaird and had also developed a top crack. He aksed me if I knew of a good Guild repairman. I paid to send the guitar to Scratch's guy in South Texas. That's when the bad, and embarrassing news hit.

You see, I hadn't looked inside the guitar :shock: ........cracked bridge, loose braces, cracks developing and cracks repaired...............I freaked :shock: :shock: . Here I thought I was doing a good friend a favor, but had unintentionally misrepresented the guitar. I had no choice but to tell my friend of all that was wrong with the guitar, assure him that I had no prior knowledge and hope he believed me.

My friend was extremely gracious, paid for the repairs and Scratch was good enough to bring her back up on a return trip to East Texas. But I did learn a valuable lesson........that I will always check a guitar inside and out before selling. So you see, things like this do happen. I'm glad all parties are happy. You've done a good thing "Thunderface". Sometimes the right thing to do isn't the easist, but it's always the right thing.

West

You're a good egg West, and there's some very sound advice there. I've been lucky on eBay so far, but batting 1000 is a tough thing to keep up.

 

[Nigel Wickwire]

Anonymous buyer chiming in here.............

Interesting thread, to say the least. The G-37 in question is a factory second and it does indeed need a neck reset. But not in the direction that you all are thinking. Usually when a vintage guitar needs a neck reset, it's because the neck has pulled up over time and the action is too high. This guitar has the opposite problem. The neck is "underset". There is big bend where the neck meets the body. The Bridge is in excess of 7/16" thick, The saddle is over 1/4" and there is less than 3/32" at the low E to the 12th fret. At the same time there are more than 5/8" between the strings and the body of the guitar. This should ideally be 3/8" to 1/2".

Read about neck angle here:http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/NeckAngle/neckangle.html

To compound the problem, the top is concave, as it's collapsing. Lay a straight edge lengthwise across the top and there is 1/8" gap beneath the straight edge and the sound board. We're not talking about squirting a little glue under a brace. We're talking about removing the top and replacing it. There is a repaired crack in the top, not a big deal by itself, but that bridge didn't grow that thick on it's own. This guitar has had some serious problems in the past. I don't know why the guitar was seconded at Westerly, but there's lots too choose from.

If all she needed was neck reset, I'd a done it and not said 'Boo' about it. But, a $350 to $400 neck reset doesn't begin to scratch the surface of the problem. My luthier declined to do the neck reset due to the top settling/collapsing. This is the person who I had look at it:

http://www.mcmastersguitars.com/

Thunderface has done an exemplary job of standing behind the guitar and I wouldn't hesitate to do business with him again.

~nw

 

[adorshki]

Shore was purty in the pitchures!

 

[West R Lee]

Anonymous buyer chiming in here.............

Interesting thread, to say the least. The G-37 in question is a factory second and it does indeed need a neck reset. But not in the direction that you all are thinking. Usually when a vintage guitar needs a neck reset, it's because the neck has pulled up over time and the action is too high. This guitar has the opposite problem. The neck is "underset". There is big bend where the neck meets the body. The Bridge is in excess of 7/16" thick, The saddle is over 1/4" and there is less than 3/32" at the low E to the 12th fret. At the same time there are more than 5/8" between the strings and the body of the guitar. This should ideally be 3/8" to 1/2".

Read about neck angle here:http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/NeckAngle/neckangle.html

To compound the problem, the top is concave, as it's collapsing. Lay a straight edge lengthwise across the top and there is 1/8" gap beneath the straight edge and the sound board. We're not talking about squirting a little glue under a brace. We're talking about removing the top and replacing it. There is a repaired crack in the top, not a big deal by itself, but that bridge didn't grow that thick on it's own. This guitar has had some serious problems in the past. I don't know why the guitar was seconded at Westerly, but there's lots too choose from.

If all she needed was neck reset, I'd a done it and not said 'Boo' about it. But, a $350 to $400 neck reset doesn't begin to scratch the surface of the problem. My luthier declined to do the neck reset due to the top settling/collapsing. This is the person who I had look at it:

http://www.mcmastersguitars.com/

Thunderface has done an exemplary job of standing behind the guitar and I wouldn't hesitate to do business with him again.

~nw

Nigel,

Any idea what would cause that? :?

West

 

[GardMan]

Nigel,
Does/did it look like the bridge was original? My wife's '78 D-35 had an original bridge in excess of 6/16" high... but the neck angle was creeping as expected for a 30 yr old guitar. I wonder if the high bridge/saddle on this G-37 was put on at the factory to compensate for the neck being overset/set too far back (thus the 2nd designation)... and that the lever arm from the high bridge and saddle is responsible for the top collapse?

Thunderface,
That is a beautiful burst, and G-37s are great guitars. It would be a shame to give up on her... or deface her with a re-top. I wonder if there would be a way to get her top flattened out and bracing straightened out w/o a full re-topping, which would ruin the burst finish? Ain't going to be cheap, and a neck reset would also be req'd. In fact, it will likely cost as much as the guitar will be worth when it's done ($600-800?). But, in my mind, that's no worse an option than hanging her up as wall art (Unfortunately, Frank Ford doesn't accept shipped guitars for repair... they have to be brought in.. but he might be able to give some advice).
Just my $0.02... and that's about how much it's worth.
D

 

[Nigel Wickwire]

Nigel,
Does/did it look like the bridge was original? My wife's '78 D-35 had an original bridge in excess of 6/16" high... but the neck angle was creeping as expected for a 30 yr old guitar. I wonder if the high bridge/saddle on this G-37 was put on at the factory to compensate for the neck being overset/set too far back (thus the 2nd designation)... and that the lever arm from the high bridge and saddle is responsible for the top collapse?

....<snip>...

This is exactly what I think happened, Gardman. Although, I'm certainly no expert on guitar construction :wink:

~nw

 

[West R Lee]

Interesting.

West