Here in the UK Guilds aren't plentiful and not particularly cheap, one thing I have noticed is that in general when used they appear to be in a worse condition than similar aged Martins or Taylors I wondered if they are not as durable as these brands or they tend to be less looked after because they are cheaper than these alternatives when new
An observation
- Thread starter yoffer
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krysh
Guildarist in the mod squad
maybe they are only more loved and used than the others?
Taylor Martin Guild
Senior Member
I have also noticed this.
Many of the 90's and older Guilds that I have seen and played have issues.
There seems to be a lot of them with checked finishes and there appears to be a lot that need the necks re-set.
A lot of ebay Guild adds say that the guitars have had cracks repaired.
I love Guilds and the Guild sound but it can be hard to find used Guilds that are in what I would consider to be in excellent condition.
I have a 1980 Yamaha and a 1981 Martin that don't have any finish cracks, and the necks are as good as they were when they were new.
I have often wondered why Guilds tend to have these issues so often.
I know that older Gibsons are even worse for finish cracking and there are many Martins that need a neck re-set, but it seems that more of the Guilds have cracks in them.
I also wonder though, like already stated, if part of the problem is that the owners just didn't take proper care of them.
This will be an interesting topic to follow.
Many of the 90's and older Guilds that I have seen and played have issues.
There seems to be a lot of them with checked finishes and there appears to be a lot that need the necks re-set.
A lot of ebay Guild adds say that the guitars have had cracks repaired.
I love Guilds and the Guild sound but it can be hard to find used Guilds that are in what I would consider to be in excellent condition.
I have a 1980 Yamaha and a 1981 Martin that don't have any finish cracks, and the necks are as good as they were when they were new.
I have often wondered why Guilds tend to have these issues so often.
I know that older Gibsons are even worse for finish cracking and there are many Martins that need a neck re-set, but it seems that more of the Guilds have cracks in them.
I also wonder though, like already stated, if part of the problem is that the owners just didn't take proper care of them.
This will be an interesting topic to follow.
It may be that a higher percentage of Guilds are being used professionally, and are therefore being subjected to temperature changes (=finish cracking/checking), and being moved around more, they also pick up more cracks and dings.
Just a personal impression.
Kostas
Just a personal impression.
Kostas
southernGuild
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I agree with the commets that the Guilds are very well built. Fit and finish, I think are very fine....THAT to me is not the issue....It is their frequent USE, and perhaps ABUSE due to the fact that they are not the most expensive brand of guitar . Somebody buying a Martin, Gibson, Collings, etc high end would be expected to know a thing or two about guitars....how to play one and Care for one. Guilds are often the first choice at an economic level for a good quality guitar at a great price. and , as such they are falling into these hands...it is easy for a guitar to NOT be cared for properly ( simple "not knowing" about humidity, heat ,cold, tuning ( I knew a guy , with a NEW D40,who was trying to tune his A string, but tightening the low E...until the low E broke, the bridge and saddle were shot ) ....simple beginner mistakes overall. but mistakes that a more experienced and knowledgeable player is far less likely to make.
NO GUITAR would be able to withstand such repeated abuses....Guilds in fact are probably MORE able to do so than most others...but THERE IS A LIMIT!! Affordability...and the inexperience that THAT this distinction can bring can bring may indeed be the death nell to many a fine old Guild!
Blame not the GUILD.......Blame its OWNER!!!
Down here in Australia.....They are expensive, but the BOTTOM of the expensive guitars generally....so they attract a more experienced player....with better knowledge on CARE and maintaining a fine guitar. I have seen some OLD Guild beauties Down here!....many still looking as good as new. BECAUSE they were well cared for!
THAT to me is the lesson in this........simply,...TAKE CARE, TAKE precautions, and PLAY THAT GUITAR!!! That Guild will give you YEARS and YEARS of great playing!
NO GUITAR would be able to withstand such repeated abuses....Guilds in fact are probably MORE able to do so than most others...but THERE IS A LIMIT!! Affordability...and the inexperience that THAT this distinction can bring can bring may indeed be the death nell to many a fine old Guild!
Blame not the GUILD.......Blame its OWNER!!!
Down here in Australia.....They are expensive, but the BOTTOM of the expensive guitars generally....so they attract a more experienced player....with better knowledge on CARE and maintaining a fine guitar. I have seen some OLD Guild beauties Down here!....many still looking as good as new. BECAUSE they were well cared for!
THAT to me is the lesson in this........simply,...TAKE CARE, TAKE precautions, and PLAY THAT GUITAR!!! That Guild will give you YEARS and YEARS of great playing!
Paddlefoot
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I'm with Kostas and Southern on this one. I think we even had another thread on it a while back. Guilds have historically been sort of the working musicians guitar. Well made and able to perform without breaking the bank. While the Gibsons and Martins and such may be the Ferraris of the guitar world a lot of people buy one for the name and then are afraid to play out with it because it's too danged expensive to risk getting it screwed up or stolen. Check out the trend to "relic" electric guitars these days, just trying to make them look like the well played everyman guitars of the past. If you don't think Martins and Gibsons get crack you just aren't looking back far enough to get to the before Guild ones. Martins are notorious for top cracks from the sound hole to the bridge at the B string. Other places too. All guitars have bugaboos. Mid 90s Guilds seem to have a good many binding problems. Gibsons in the 80s had lots of finish problems and it's not uncommon to see them looking like a heated marble dropped in cold water they are so cracked and checked. Now I'm not talking about age related problems there. I worked in a vintage shop for a short time in the mid 90s and I recall seeing an 89 Gibson Lucille that was just pathetic and I knew the owner was more of a collector than a player so the guitar was not exposed to harsh conditions. Find a guitar with good normal wear on the frets all over the fretboard and matching honest wear on the finish and buy it 'cause that one is a player. That is exactly what my X-175 is.
JerryR
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I can only say mine was in fairly good trim although it had one bent tuning peg, the top finish is crazed (if you look along it) andthere are some dings and nicks. I'm not sure if it was bought in the US and imported by Vintage & Rare Guitars, or had been in the UK a while, when I bought it in May 2007.
What part of the UK do you inhabit Yoffer :?:
What part of the UK do you inhabit Yoffer :?:
I've been a Guild fan since I got my 12 in '65. I've also recommended them to anyone who was interested. From strictly non-scientific observation, I think that many older Guilds are in poor shape for the opposite reason than being played professionally. Owned by people who thought what the heck, it's not like it's a valuable Martin or something, so when they got done playing, it was left lying around on the couch or against a chair to be moved and abused by the next person to want that spot, played with by the cat, etc. Another scenario is the yuppie who decides he needs a Martin D-45 to go along with his Beamer, so the six year old gets the Guild. Most working musicians can't afford to let there gigging instrument be abused. Replacing it is expensive, and having it in the shop for a while could lose them jobs. Remember, most working musicians are NOT playing 10,000 seat arenas and making tons on money, they are playing local jobs, clubs, weddings, parties, etc. and maybe teaching. A good carpenter keeps his/her tools in top shape, so do most working musicians I've run across.
Brad
Brad
I think there are some interesting posts in this thread. Obviously, people have spent a lot of time analyzing the guitars they have seen or owned.
I've recently owned a few Guilds from the '70's and '80s. The one constant I've seen is that Guild necks appear underset, at least compared to Martins and Gibsons. It seems to me that the 'Guild neck-set difference' must be by design, plan and intent on the part of the makers . Anybody have a response?
On the issue of condition, well, if you play out long enough, your guitar will take some hits. I appreciate the comments about professionals taking care of their guitars. I agree, but 'stuff happens', whether a guitar is on the road, at campfires, or just played locally at the occasional coffee-house gig, etc.
I've recently owned a few Guilds from the '70's and '80s. The one constant I've seen is that Guild necks appear underset, at least compared to Martins and Gibsons. It seems to me that the 'Guild neck-set difference' must be by design, plan and intent on the part of the makers . Anybody have a response?
On the issue of condition, well, if you play out long enough, your guitar will take some hits. I appreciate the comments about professionals taking care of their guitars. I agree, but 'stuff happens', whether a guitar is on the road, at campfires, or just played locally at the occasional coffee-house gig, etc.
Ian
Senior Member
...and of course a Martin or a Gibson can't take the sort of punishment that a Guild can.
fungusyoung
Senior Member
I think with higher end guitars there tends to be more kit gloves handling & care. For many I'd suspect that the less one spends the less concern about nicks, scratches, etc. enters into the equation. Some just aren't willing to take their prized high $ guitars out on the road with them... and I can't say that I blame them.
As an example, I have a Squier Tele that I converted into an Esquire. I've played that thing out many times in crappy bars. I've played the living daylights out of it, spilled beer on it & in general have just enjoyed that guitar to the umpteenth degree with no forethought whatsoever about it getting damaged. That said, when I'm done playing, it gets wiped down & carefully placed back into the HSC until next time. Earlier this year I had an Esquire built, which actually looks similar to the Squier. Although it didn't cost me a ludicrous amount of $, it's as much as I've ever spent on a guitar and it's 4 x more than what I have into the Squier (including upgrades). Much as I try to just let loose & enjoy it, there's always a little consideration in the back of my mind for it's safety.
On the other hand, Guilds can take a beating... I'm talking firsthand about many of the Westerly era acoustics I own & have owned. Knowing they can take it is probably another factor at least for some. If you have a Gibson Les Paul or SG, you know you need to be very careful about the headstock cracking... but guys playing Teles don't have the same worry.
Guilds... they are made to be played!
As an example, I have a Squier Tele that I converted into an Esquire. I've played that thing out many times in crappy bars. I've played the living daylights out of it, spilled beer on it & in general have just enjoyed that guitar to the umpteenth degree with no forethought whatsoever about it getting damaged. That said, when I'm done playing, it gets wiped down & carefully placed back into the HSC until next time. Earlier this year I had an Esquire built, which actually looks similar to the Squier. Although it didn't cost me a ludicrous amount of $, it's as much as I've ever spent on a guitar and it's 4 x more than what I have into the Squier (including upgrades). Much as I try to just let loose & enjoy it, there's always a little consideration in the back of my mind for it's safety.
On the other hand, Guilds can take a beating... I'm talking firsthand about many of the Westerly era acoustics I own & have owned. Knowing they can take it is probably another factor at least for some. If you have a Gibson Les Paul or SG, you know you need to be very careful about the headstock cracking... but guys playing Teles don't have the same worry.
Guilds... they are made to be played!
killdeer43
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There it is. Who among us can say it any better?fungusyoung said:
Joe
I don't have a lot of experience to add to this thread. Three of the four Guilds I've bought from folks around here have needed some lutherie but bottom line they were very "pre-loved."
My observation is this... Guilds are not expensive enough to be treated like museum pieces. Some of them, by golly, are surely worth... but that's not the nature of this brand and the people who have bought them over the years.
My observation is this... Guilds are not expensive enough to be treated like museum pieces. Some of them, by golly, are surely worth... but that's not the nature of this brand and the people who have bought them over the years.
JimbowF212
Member
Let me chime in with this. My F-212NT was received in 1975 I played it as much as I could but, I took care of it and I kept the truss rod adjusted and cleaned and polished it regularly and I was very particular about who I let play it. I traded it in in 1989. At 14 yrs old it was in Mint condition no scratches, no dents, no neck issues, nothing it was still in like factory new condition and it still played extremely well. I suspect that the Guilds you see in the rough condition come from people who don't take care of their instruments and their cars probably look like they have been used in a car bombing, too. As I have stated before My F-212 was the very best 12 string in it's class and I am convinced that properly cared for Guilds are just as durable as any other brand. Now Martin makes their Guitars out of extremely thin wood so if they hold up I am sure Guilds will because Guild, I Believe, uses thicker wood and I base this on the fact that Guilds are heavier then Martins and that is my experience not Heresay.
JimbowF212
Member
guitardude said:
Any instrument is not supposed to be abused nor have to take punishment. Would you take a Stienway piano and put it in the middle of a battle field? I think not so why would you take a fine guitar, no matter who made it and put it in one. BTW Martins will take punishment with the Best OF 'EM Ask Tony Rice or any one else who have taken a Martin on the road. Now Gibson, Well.......... :mrgreen:
Guitars, for professional players, are tools used to generate income. In order to do this, they are used in bars, cafes, restaurants, at events (weddings, etc.) and of course in, studios. Being moved around so much, they will get bumped, and they will get taken from homes, to cars/vans/trucks/trains/airplanes/buses, and into the place where they are to be played, not all of which will be at ideal temperatures, so nitro finishes will crack/craze. This doesn't mean that professional players are intentionally damaging guitars, this is just an accumulation of things that happen when guitars get taken on the road. This is true of Guilds, Martins, Gibsons, and a host of other guitar brands.
Not all guitars will spend their entire existence in the comfort of somebody's living room, and life on the road can be tough.
Kostas
Not all guitars will spend their entire existence in the comfort of somebody's living room, and life on the road can be tough.
Kostas
I think there is much truth to various posts in this thread. I find it ironic that Guilds are considered inexpensive, because when I first started guitar in the early 60s Guilds were considered very high value instruments, which is why I ended up with a Harmony. Now it is different, perhaps that accounts for the existence of this forum that so many have discovered the high quality/price ratio of Guilds.
I have bought 2 Guilds on the Bay in the past 2 months, the two Westerlys in my signature. I look at other serious guitars on Ebay as well, it is not just Guilds that have issues, Martins and Gibsons have them too. Over time age creeps up on people and instruments. Don't know if Ebay is more representative of what is out there, checking the FS threads on the various forums you don't see clunkers, and the reason is that those serious enough to join a forum are serious about caring for the guitars in their possession.
Back in the day we were less aware of environmental issues, my Harmony has a huge top side crack (still plays as good as ever) probably caused by lack of humidity when I lived in MN for 25 years, and the indoor heat in the winter really dried out everything.
I know if I had a prewar Gibson J-200 I would be pretty paranoid about taking care of it. If Harmonys sold for 10K you bet I would have been more vigilant about keeping it in good shape. Although back when I got started, more knowledge about the ravages of time seemed to be more the provenance of classical instruments, rust never sleeps.
Harmony H-173 bought in 1960 (retired)
Alvarez AC60S 2008
Eastman AC320ce 2008 BOOKMATCHING BOOKMATCHING WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING BOOKMATCHING!
http://www.massstreetmusic.com/store/sh ... id-Cutaway
GAD-JF30E(blonde) 2008
JF55 1997
D25M 1974
I have bought 2 Guilds on the Bay in the past 2 months, the two Westerlys in my signature. I look at other serious guitars on Ebay as well, it is not just Guilds that have issues, Martins and Gibsons have them too. Over time age creeps up on people and instruments. Don't know if Ebay is more representative of what is out there, checking the FS threads on the various forums you don't see clunkers, and the reason is that those serious enough to join a forum are serious about caring for the guitars in their possession.
Back in the day we were less aware of environmental issues, my Harmony has a huge top side crack (still plays as good as ever) probably caused by lack of humidity when I lived in MN for 25 years, and the indoor heat in the winter really dried out everything.
I know if I had a prewar Gibson J-200 I would be pretty paranoid about taking care of it. If Harmonys sold for 10K you bet I would have been more vigilant about keeping it in good shape. Although back when I got started, more knowledge about the ravages of time seemed to be more the provenance of classical instruments, rust never sleeps.
Harmony H-173 bought in 1960 (retired)
Alvarez AC60S 2008
Eastman AC320ce 2008 BOOKMATCHING BOOKMATCHING WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING BOOKMATCHING!
http://www.massstreetmusic.com/store/sh ... id-Cutaway
GAD-JF30E(blonde) 2008
JF55 1997
D25M 1974
GardMan
Enlightened Member
I think there might be some truth to that statement.gilded said:
One of Frank Ford's indicators of neck angle is the height of the strings above the soundboard right in front of the bridge... he thinks 1/2" is optimum, and anything less than 3/8" is reset territory. Well, the original (never shaved) bridges on my early '70s Guilds ('71 D-44 and '72 D-35) are only about 1/4" high... Even with a full 1/8" of saddle above the bridge, you'd only in the low end of the "acceptable" range. After 38 years... saddles are lower and the strings are, as well. I am going to have to ramp the bridge of my D-35 soon, to improve the break angle of the strings.
Interestingly, the bridges on my later Guilds are significantly higher... my '76 D-50 bridge is 5/16" under the low E, and the D-46 and D-55 are even higher. Now, some of this may be instrument to instrument variation... but I think Hans has mentioned that in the later years, Guild used taller bridges... so they must have been setting the necks further back by then.
Dave
Ian
Senior Member
JimbowF212 said:
Hi Jim,
Quite correct, but you do seem to find a lot more battered Guilds than you do Martins. As you know Martins a lot lighter constructed than Guilds, perhaps the beater Martins have all destructed over time only leaving the Guilds ? Survival of the fittest and all that...
Of course old Martins are now seen as valuable, not sure if that was always the case ? As for Martins taking punishment with the best of them, well Peter Rowans D18 didn't fare too well did it !!
Cheers, Ian