Best Guild 12 string?

[bodde]

Hi,

This is my first post here. Hope someone can help me.

I am in the market for a new 12 string. My budget is 1500-2500$
I use it mostly for finger picking and some occasional flat picking.
I am mostly tuned to an Open C tuning or variation of that.

I am thinking of an F212 XL, F412 or F521, or maybe a JF-30-12.

can someone tell me the main difference between the F212 XL and the F412/F512 models?
Which are considered the 'best'?

And is it better to by a new F412/F512 Guild or a 70's F212XL/F412/F512?
Is the quality of the new or 90's Guild the same as the older ones?

 

[charliea]

Here's a good source of info http://westerlyguildguitars.com/guitars.html . The 212XL is a mahogany flat back, the 412 a maple arch back, and the 512 a rosewood flat back. The 412 and 512 are "shield" guilds (refers to the headstock inlay) with fancier appointments. The JF30-12 is the "chesterfield" inlay version of the 412. Which is better, or a better deal? Probably (in retrospect) the one you eventually decide not to buy, as compared with the one you choose.

 

[hojo199]

Love my JF30-12

 

[killdeer43]

bodde,

Welcome to the source for all things Guild. Just sit back and wait for a virtual flood of praise for and info about Guild 12 strings.
They are the best 12 strings out there, and the one that qualifies as "the best" will be up for discussion for quite some time.
It's also a pretty subjective rating. I really enjoy my D4-12.

You have a good budget to work with so you'll be happy with whichever Guild 12 you find. You might even find one right here!

Stay tuned and enjoy LTG,
Joe

 

[12 string]

The F-512 is the best I have for standard to one whole step low tuning. Mostly it stays a whole step low. For lower tunings the JF-65 12 (same as F-412) is better.

And welcome aboard!

' Strang

 

[chazmo]

Welcome aboard, bodde! Those are all different flavors of the classic, Guild jumbo 12-string. They're all great (IMO); I'm not sure you can go wrong.

If it's at all meaningful, as recently as last year, Martin introduced a completely new model in their line that is unquestionably directly influenced by the F-512. For that matter, being totally honest, if I had to keep one of my 12-string Guilds, it'd be the -512.

That said, if you're patient, and if you want a new guitar, you're about to see the F-212XL (solid, flat-back mahogany) re-introduced into the product line (from New Hartford). Stay tuned. A descendent of the JF-30-12 is being made these days as a Chinese (GAD) model, and currently has no US-built version. The -412 and -512 though are coming from New Hartford. Just FYI.

 

[mcrofutt]

Watch for a good deal on a used JF30-12 (NOT CAD!)
You won't be disappointed
My 98 is just plain awesome

 

[steverok]

The jumbos I have played have been great, if you can handle them. I have tried all of them, and own a maple. I have especially liked the F412s and F212XL I have played. Also the dreads from Westerly D212, D25-12, G312, G212 are a little easier to handle, and worth looking at.

 

[bodde]

Thank you all for the warm welcome!

Yes, I heard about the forthcoming F212 XL reissue. Does anyone know when it comes on the market?

Didn't Leo Kottke use a F212 XL on his early years (the '6 and 12 string guitar' guitar album and so)? I am not sure about that and can't find any info about what guitars he has used.

The F-512 is the best I have for standard to one whole step low tuning. Mostly it stays a whole step low. For lower tunings the JF-65 12 (same as F-412) is better.

why is the JF-65 better for lower tunings and the F-512 better for standard tunings?

 

[12 string]

Thank you all for the warm welcome!

Yes, I heard about the forthcoming F212 XL reissue. Does anyone know when it comes on the market?

Didn't Leo Kottke use a F212 XL on his early years (the '6 and 12 string guitar' guitar album and so)? I am not sure about that and can't find any info about what guitars he has used.

The F-512 is the best I have for standard to one whole step low tuning. Mostly it stays a whole step low. For lower tunings the JF-65 12 (same as F-412) is better.

why is the JF-65 better for lower tunings and the F-512 better for standard tunings?

As you go with heavier guage strings and lower tunings a certain muddiness creeps into the tone. Rosewood has rich, deep, dense, thick overtones and long sustain which muddies things up even more. Maple, on the other hand, offers a plainer tone which has more clarity and faster decay. This tends to counteract the trend towards muddy sound.

' Strang

 

[charliea]

Unless I'm mistaken, Kottke played a Gibson B45-12.

 

[bluesypicky]

....and a Taylor among others.
Welcome Bodde! :mrgreen:

 

[kdavid]

welcome aboard! dont be shy about the GADs either--if you can get your hands on one to testdrive.
Mine was awsome in open G (GAD F-212)

 

[JimbowF212]

I highly Recommend a Westerly F212 if you can find a good one. They are great looking and they sound terrific at least that was what mine was like, when I had it.

 

[chazmo]

[ ... ]
Yes, I heard about the forthcoming F212 XL reissue. Does anyone know when it comes on the market?[ ... ]

Well you probably heard about it from me as I shot my mouth off about the Standard Series months ago. Word from the managment is late this month or next month for the series introduction. But I don't really know if they're on a schedule with this.

I played their prototype at the factory, bodde, and I got pretty excited about it (and the other Standard Series instrument prototypes that were there). Cross your fingers. I'm sure they won't be cheap, by the way... There are usually a handful of these that pop up on eBay as time goes on. It was re-issued in Westerly towards the end of the '90s, I think. And, if all goes well, it's coming back in the Standard Series.

 

[dreadnut]

The F-412 and F-512 (vintage) are both in your price range and both exceptional guitars. There's an F-412 at a local music store right now for $1,499, she's a sweetheart (except for the pick marks above the soundhole.) I owned an F-512, and that's the one I'd prefer, but the Maple ones I've played are also outstanding.

The JF-55-12 (rosewood) and JF-65-12 (maple) are essentially the same guitars with different model #'s.

Here was the rub for me: all of these have really wide fingerboards. Mine had really nice action all the way up the neck, but it hurt my chording hand to play it for very long, especially where I had to do lots of barre' chords. Someone might be able to confirm this, but I believe the -212 has a bit skinnier neck. Just something to consider if you have short fingers like me.

But oh, the sound!

 

[6L6]

LOVE my '06 F-412!

Even so, I would also try a vintage Martin D-12-20 before buying anything else.

6

 

[taabru45]

LOVE my '06 F-412!

Even so, I would also try a vintage Martin D-12-20 before buying anything else.

6

A word of caution though.....My first decent 12 was the 12-20....I liked it a lot.....I think though that they were made without a truss rod.... :shock: Steffan

 

[bodde]

Unless I'm mistaken, Kottke played a Gibson B45-12.

Thanks for the info. I didn't know that. There seems to be very little information about what guitars he has used in the past.
At least I couldn't find it.

Looking forward to try a F-212 XL reissue. Hope I can wait that long.

 

[charliea]

My info comes from YouTube videos, to give you an idea of how well informed I am. Near as I can tell, he played the Gibson (same as G. Lightfoot) until he made a deal with Taylor. From what I've seen he played with a plastic thumbpick and three metal fingerpicks ala Pete Seeger (and me, but I don't think I was their role model) until his bout with tendinitis forced a complete change in playing style. Seeger (custom 12-string) learned from Leadbelly (Stella), who played two-finger with a horny thumb and a huge steel pick on his index finger.