D-35 neck reset options

[stellerscrub]

I have a 1976 Guild D-35 with high action (3.0 - 3.5 mm @ 12th fret). The neck is showing a definite tilt once it leaves the body, and a straightedge on the fretboard strikes the bridge about 2.5 mm below the top of the bridge.

If this were a Martin, I would be looking at a neck reset, but I understand that neck resets on Guild acoustics are more complicated, and some luthiers don't like resetting Guild necks (finish issues?). The bridge is still its original 5/16" thickness, so there appears to be plenty of wood there to allow some bridge shaving and saddle lowering. I've also seen some videos about removing some fingerboard wood to compensate, and then there's the guy in Australia who resets necks without removing them using steam and time ().

Anyone have experience to offer?

 

[kostask]

This is your guitar, and I am sure you will do what is best for you and your wallet.

I am personally adamantly opposed to "creative" neck resets. By that I mean shaving bridges, planing fingerboards, and other ways of getting an acceptable neck angle that alter the basic geometry of the guitar, and this doesn't just apply to Guilds, but ALL acoustic guitars. The fundamental reason is that once you alter the geometry of the guitar, there is no going back. Whether you shave a bridge, or plane a fingerboard, you cannot ever put the mission wood back, and it will be so for the entirety of the guitar's existence. Argument can be made that shaving a bridge will only require a new bridge to be added later, or planing a fingerboard isn't a big change, but both have their own issues. Shaving a bridge will alter the sound of the guitar by some amount, in that the string height above the fingerboard will change, which does have an effect on the "lever action" that the bridge exerts on the top. Proper string height is NOT just a matter of measuring where the straight edge meets the front edge of the bridge. Not only that, but it also has the potential for weakenging the front edge of the bridge in front of the saddle, increasing probability that the bridge will then crack. Planing a fingerboard is also an issue, as it most often requires also shaving a bridge. Planing a fingerboard in and of itself does NOT change the string angle, all you are doing is changing the clearance of the strings from the fingerboard surface; the string action is still being set by the saddle and nut, so planing a fingerboard will still require the bridge to be shaved as well. I added this edit as I thought about it more: note as well, that planing a fingerboard, as dubious as it is already, will also require removing the frets, planing the fingerboard as some incredibly precise angles, shaving the bridge, reshaping or replacing the saddle and nut, putting the frets back (more than likely, using new frets), perhaps making deeper fret slots in some fret locations, fret levelling, and fret crowning and polishing. With all that work vs. a genuine neck reset, how much money do you actually save? I'd be willing to bet, no much. In return, you end up with what is in essence, a damaged (perhaps beyond repair) guitar.

It is a fact of life that acoustic guitars, by their very design and construction will need a neck reset once enough time has passed. You can monkey around with all of these "band-aid" solution, but what you are doing is damaging the guitar and adversely impacting the value of the instrument. I can see doing some of this possibly being acceptable on some junker guitar, where the work will be more than the value of the guitar will ever be, but on any instrument worth keeping, no way.

 

[F-412Spec]

I've reset six Guild necks (owned by me). Both 6 and 12 string. They are not much different than other dovetail resets. NOTE: I use a neck-pulling jig.

Here are some factors which may affect luthiers' willingness to set these necks:

1. There is factory finish over the joint. This finish must be separated before removing the neck. I have a little Xacto chisel (razor-blade thin and sharp; 3/8" wide) I use for this. Takes about 30 seconds.

2. Many Guild necks are laminated. Some luthiers believe there is a greater risk of separating the laminations at the heel when steaming the joint. I have not had this happen (I use steam, but only for about 45-60 seconds (three 15-20 second injection-bursts).

3. The Guild dovetail is 5º instead of the more widely used 10º. This makes it harder to get a good, fast pull-together while gluing the joint.

4. To match the factory appearance, finish must be matched, blended, sanded, and polished at the reset joint. Sometimes this is a pain in the rear due to varying factory finish color, and color-shifting from aging.

Take a look at Bryan Kimsey's comments about neck reset procedures if you want info from a paid professional who has done too many resets to count. Also look at Frank Ford's comments (frets.com).

This might interest you as well:

Neck joint dovetail geometry on Guild 12 string guitars

I just took this Guild F212XL S/N 89015 1973 neck/body joint apart and thought maybe others would like to know what it looks like, and other information. First, an observation - The Guilds I've taken apart (four from the '60s and two from the '70s) have had no dovetail shims from the factory...

letstalkguild.com

 

[Br1ck]

I am also not a fan of any shortcuts. Shaving a bridge to me is kicking the can down the road, and eventually you'll have to get a non original bridge made. If you plan on keeping the guitar, have the work done. Ask yourself if you'd rather have whatever you could buy for the repair estimate.

 

[HeyMikey]

If you really like the guitar then my vote is to do it properly, enjoy playing it for a long time and don’t bugger it up for future owners. A good neck reset and set up will make a world of difference in playability.

If you are so-so on the guitar and looking to try something new, perhaps just disclose the facts and sell it as is. Let someone else do or pay for the work, and then buy what you really want.

 

[Wellington]

I don't have much advice, other than where the straight edge hits the bridge doesn't indicate much. Some techs say it should be level with the top, or a 1/4" below. And I've played guitars with great action with both. It depends how thick the bridge was, what angle the neck was originally set etc. Action at the 12th is a much better indicator.

I would get it reset.

 

[plaidseason]

I'm a little "counterpoint" on this one. If the bridge is thick enough, I'm not averse to shaving it. And in my opinion, it's not that crazy to replace the bridge down the road if you elect to then do a reset.

But if you're willing to spend the money, and you have top-notch luthier, a neck reset is the ideal long term solution.

I'd start with visiting/talking to a very good luthier and discussing options. This group can recommend some. I have definitely can offer one in Connecticut.

 

[stellerscrub]

Thanks to all for the responses. I have to look at the cost of a reset vs. the value of the guitar; it's not my primary guitar but I do like it a lot. I have a call in to a local luthier who has done some work on another guitar and will also take it to Gryphon next time I'm down that way (an hour's drive).

Speaking of value, it appears that Reverb no longer shows Sold listings, which always struck me as a better measure of resale value than asking prices. Anyone have thoughts on the current value of mid-70s D-35s?

 

[fronobulax]

Guild D35 | Reverb

Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.

reverb.com

That is harder than it used to be but I searched on "Guild D35" and then went into All Filters to get Sold.

Also

Price Guide

The Reverb Price Guide is the ultimate source for tracking and pricing musical instruments and gear.

reverb.com

When I was looking at something else I also got a graph of estimated value but that may depend upon sales volume. Look at the following and scroll down.

Guild D-25 1974 - 1986 | Reverb

Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.

reverb.com

 

[plaidseason]

I want to also add, "what is it worth to you?" isn't ever a flippant remark. I have a Simon & Patrick guitar that's only about $550 new and I got it for $180 used. I've put plenty of money into that guitar as it's my main live instrument and honestly it sounds better than a whole list of guitars I've played that cost ten times what I paid for it - this is based on actual comparisons to Martin 000-15, 000-17s, a whole bunch of Taylors, and even recent Guild M20s that I wanted to want. The S&P held its own.

 

[Br1ck]

Thanks to all for the responses. I have to look at the cost of a reset vs. the value of the guitar; it's not my primary guitar but I do like it a lot. I have a call in to a local luthier who has done some work on another guitar and will also take it to Gryphon next time I'm down that way (an hour's drive).

Speaking of value, it appears that Reverb no longer shows Sold listings, which always struck me as a better measure of resale value than asking prices. Anyone have thoughts on the current value of mid-70s D-35s?

Sylvan just sold a 70 D35, posted here if you search, for $1600, top dollar for one I'd think. A mid seventies would be a bit less. Another half hour south is CB Perkins in San Jose. Kent was a Guild service center for thirty years and won't blink. He's, shall we say, an acquired taste as far as personality but does great work, as will Gryphon. They did an extensive rebuild on my D 35. Neck set, frets, bridge, nut and saddle. Good work. Make an appointment. No guitar tech of the highest order will be cheap, but both shops are very good and lead times confirm the quality work they do.

I sunk $1100 into my D 35 when they were worth $800-900. But I bought it cheap twenty years ago, so have a total of $1400 in it. It is more about wanting to preserve them than financial considerations.

 

[aloner]

My 70s F-20 got its neck reset before I bought it and it was ok - the finish is a bit darker around the neck joint otherwise normal

 

[Neal]

I still own a ‘73 D-35 I bought in high school in 1975.

It suffered from owner neglect back before I knew how to care for a quality acoustic guitar. One of those incidents was my decision to shave the bridge in lieu of a neck reset.

In hindsight, I should have invested in the proper repair for the long haul. But I had two kids and a mortgage.

 

[Br1ck]

Eight or nine years ago, I got one of two NOS Brazilian bridges Hans had left. The dreaded bridge shave had been done. One of the many reasons I bought my D 35 for $250, but that was twenty years ago. It sat for a long time in my closet. But I never regretted buying it.

 

[Rad]

Sylvan just sold a 70 D35, posted here if you search, for $1600, top dollar for one I'd think. A mid seventies would be a bit less. Another half hour south is CB Perkins in San Jose. Kent was a Guild service center for thirty years and won't blink. He's, shall we say, an acquired taste as far as personality but does great work, as will Gryphon. They did an extensive rebuild on my D 35. Neck set, frets, bridge, nut and saddle. Good work. Make an appointment. No guitar tech of the highest order will be cheap, but both shops are very good and lead times confirm the quality work they do.

I sunk $1100 into my D 35 when they were worth $800-900. But I bought it cheap twenty years ago, so have a total of $1400 in it. It is more about wanting to preserve them than financial considerations.

Yup, that was me. I did not pay the asking price but it was close. After doing enough searching I figured by the time I found a good condition D35, paid for it including shipping then added the real likelihood of a neck reset cost I would be just about at what I paid. Mine had a very nice neck reset done and the bridge re-glued and the great benefit of me getting to play it first and buy from my local store I have been going to for 40 or so years. No regrets about what I paid.

 

[Br1ck]

You do get what you pay for at shops like Sylvan. They kind of specialize at buying guitars in need of work, or taking them in trade, as many in the vintage room say house reset on the tags. My Texan's bridge was lifting a bit, something they missed, and they reglued it a month after I bought it no questions asked. When is a guitar ever priced at what you'd like to pay anyway?

Not too long ago, a sixties D 18 could be had for around $2500. Fast forward four years and Gryphon lists one for $4500 with several repaired cracks. Clean versions are routinely $6000. So a 70 D 35 at plus or minus $1500 seems reasonable. 60s D 35s would be more.

 

[Rad]

You do get what you pay for at shops like Sylvan. They kind of specialize at buying guitars in need of work, or taking them in trade, as many in the vintage room say house reset on the tags. My Texan's bridge was lifting a bit, something they missed, and they reglued it a month after I bought it no questions asked. When is a guitar ever priced at what you'd like to pay anyway?

Not too long ago, a sixties D 18 could be had for around $2500. Fast forward four years and Gryphon lists one for $4500 with several repaired cracks. Clean versions are routinely $6000. So a 70 D 35 at plus or minus $1500 seems reasonable. 60s D 35s would be more.

Gryphon and Sylvan get top dollar for the guitars they sell, that is why I have placed 4 or so guitars with Gryphon on consignment in the last couple years. I find it difficult to sell higher quality guitars on Craigslist in Santa Cruz.

 

[Westerly Wood]

I have a 1976 Guild D-35 with high action (3.0 - 3.5 mm @ 12th fret). The neck is showing a definite tilt once it leaves the body, and a straightedge on the fretboard strikes the bridge about 2.5 mm below the top of the bridge.

If this were a Martin, I would be looking at a neck reset, but I understand that neck resets on Guild acoustics are more complicated, and some luthiers don't like resetting Guild necks (finish issues?). The bridge is still its original 5/16" thickness, so there appears to be plenty of wood there to allow some bridge shaving and saddle lowering. I've also seen some videos about removing some fingerboard wood to compensate, and then there's the guy in Australia who resets necks without removing them using steam and time ().

Anyone have experience to offer?

I had a neck reset done on my D25BR back in summer of 2015 for $400. But I regret it. Not that it was done poorly or anything like that, it worked out fine, and will never need another one. What I regret is not trading it in plus some cash to grab the old beat up but super cool F212 on the wall. I knew the owner well and we were talking about it. It sounded like a piano. But alas, I decided for the reset.

That being said, my F30R should never need a reset at all. The joint on this short scale Guild mini jumbo acoustic is too darn stiff and locked in. It won't do light gauge strings, they are just too loose. It only likes mediums.

 

[Br1ck]

Gryphon and Sylvan get top dollar for the guitars they sell, that is why I have placed 4 or so guitars with Gryphon on consignment in the last couple years. I find it difficult to sell higher quality guitars on Craigslist in Santa Cruz.

Craigslist demands cash, so the higher the price, the fewer people can come up with the green stuff, even in a prosperous area. I imagine it's a pyramid. Many more looking for under $1k guitars than $5k guitars. But I have a friend who has sold many $4-5K guitars on Craigslist. One took a year. He says meet me at the PD station or my bank with cash.

 

[E-Type]

A 5/16" thick bridge is already as short side as you'd want. And if it is Brazilian rosewood, replacing once a reset is actually done will cost a LOT of money. As much as it sucks, save up the $400-$600 it will take to make it right for the next 47 years. And yes, make sure you find someone who has done a few Guilds. You don't want anyone practicing on your guitar (but honestly, my guy says Guilds are not really much trickier than Martins or Gibsons, so he charges the same).