D25 Flat Back

Kurtle

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2022
Messages
20
Reaction score
25
Location
Boise, ID
Guild Total
5
I am looking at a 1984 D25C. It had a repaired crack on the top. I haven’t seen it in person yet. In the pictures I can see bracing on the back. My question is, if a D25 is flat back, does that mean it is all Hog? The seller is asking it for around $500. With a cracked top I’m thinking about offering $300-$400.
 

chazmo

Super Moderator
Gold Supporting
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
26,128
Reaction score
7,550
Location
Central Massachusetts
I think the seller is wrong, Kurtle. I don't think D-25s from that era have flat backs. Unless he got the date wrong.

Lately we have seen a bunch of D-25s being discussed where the sellers are quite ignorant of the guitars they are selling.

I'm guessing what he/she has is an arched-back (lam. mahogany), Sitka spruce-topped, Cherry (reddish) stained guitar. The "C" could also mean cutaway, but I doubt that's the case with a D-25. Let us know what you find out, and pictures please.

Definitely $300 would be a good price if you can get it.
 

Kurtle

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2022
Messages
20
Reaction score
25
Location
Boise, ID
Guild Total
5
I think the C is for Cherry. I can see the bracing in the back in the photos.
 

chazmo

Super Moderator
Gold Supporting
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
26,128
Reaction score
7,550
Location
Central Massachusetts
Yup. OK, can you post the photos, and do you have a post of the label? If you're seeing braces then I doubt this is a D-25, but would love to see it. If it's actually flat, then yeah I'm sure it's solid mahogany, Kurtle.
 

Kurtle

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2022
Messages
20
Reaction score
25
Location
Boise, ID
Guild Total
5
image.jpegIMG_7999.jpeg
 

Attachments

  • IMG_7998.jpeg
    IMG_7998.jpeg
    88.7 KB · Views: 69

Westerly Wood

Venerated Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
13,426
Reaction score
6,625
Guild Total
2
That is actually not an 1984 then, but a way earlier D25 flatback. Regardless, that is a killer price, and if you are looking for an all hog dread, I would go look at it asap. It would be all hog too. The headstock is nigh identical to mine, same time period. Probably a 1972. But Hans/Ralf will know for sure.

Serial no makes it a 1974. Must have been one of the last all hog flats made? I know that first pic of top looks like spruce.
 

Westerly Wood

Venerated Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
13,426
Reaction score
6,625
Guild Total
2
Looks like a spruce top to me.
If it's spruce, and I agree, totally looks it from the first pic, then this is a rather rare D25 for being a 1974. But we have never really seen a D25 flat from this period that was not all hog. Spruce top would be D35 but I don't recall a cherry finish on that ever, and the decal clearly states D25. This is a great find, either way!
 

chazmo

Super Moderator
Gold Supporting
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
26,128
Reaction score
7,550
Location
Central Massachusetts
That is actually not an 1984 then, but a way earlier D25 flatback. Regardless, that is a killer price, and if you are looking for an all hog dread, I would go look at it asap. It would be all hog too. The headstock is nigh identical to mine, same time period. Probably a 1972. But Hans/Ralf will know for sure.

Serial no makes it a 1974. Must have been one of the last all hog flats made? I know that first pic of top looks like spruce.
1974 actually. And, there you have it. Flat (solid) back, and (I think) Sitka spruce top. This is a "transitional" model.

Again, lots of misinformation out there.
 

E-Type

Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2017
Messages
396
Reaction score
344
Rare indeed! Almost like they were making a D-35 and then at some point decided to finish it in cherry and call it a D-25. At $500, it’s a good deal, even if it needs a neck reset.
 
Last edited:

Heath

Member
Joined
May 29, 2019
Messages
445
Reaction score
561
I am curious how the seller arrived at a date of 1984
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,800
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
I am looking at a 1984 D25C. It had a repaired crack on the top. I haven’t seen it in person yet. In the pictures I can see bracing on the back. My question is, if a D25 is flat back, does that mean it is all Hog? The seller is asking it for around $500. With a cracked top I’m thinking about offering $300-$400.
Hi Kurtle, welcome aboard! Definitely not an '84. D25's were all-hog flatbacks until ca 1972 when the arched back started being phased in. by sometime in '73 spruce tops began appearing. because we've seen both typs from 1973, and most of the all-hog achback versions are from that year by far, I deduce they must have built both types during that year at least, and that may have led to the unusual configuration of this one as noted below. We've never seen actual dates as to when the "first and "last" of each version were built and I suspect they weren't even noted. Guild didn't plan their production around calendars, they just started and stopped building according to
capacity and market demand.
1974 actually. And, there you have it. Flat (solid) back, and (I think) Sitka spruce top. This is a "transitional" model.

Again, lots of misinformation out there.
Except the "transitional" models were the all-hog archbacks. Archback appeared first, then the spruce tops.

However since they appear to have been making both types in '73, I suppose it's possible a spruce top was mounted on an old flatback body and slipped through QC, especially with the "C" finish in a period when even the "M"ahogany-stained spruce top wasn't always ID'd correctly.

I d seem to recall a very similar story from @The Guilds of Grot about a similar piece, a flatback with a spruce top that was labeled D25, from the same period? I think we chalked it up to the then well-known labeling error problem?

Maybe even the same one?
(I bet @SFIV1967 (Ralf) knows. :LOL:
 
Last edited:

chazmo

Super Moderator
Gold Supporting
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
26,128
Reaction score
7,550
Location
Central Massachusetts
. . .
Except the "transitional" models were the all-hog archbacks. Archback appeared first, then the spruce tops.
. . .
I would say that since this is a flat-back, spruce-topped D-25, it is just as transitional as an arched-back, mahogany topped D-25, Al. As far as one being before the other, I think that's not correct.
 

twocorgis

Venerated Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
14,106
Reaction score
6,737
Location
Lawn Guyland
Guild Total
18
That guitar was actually made in 1974. There were several iterations of the D-25 being made at that time.
Well you learn something new everyday! I had an all mahogany '73 archback D25 with a lower serial number, and I thought there were no more flatbacks after the archback was introduced.

 

NM156

Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2022
Messages
116
Reaction score
134
Guild Total
1
In my experience, well made 1970s acoustic guitars including Guild's D-25 are fairly bullet proof. Just look at Willie Nelson's "Trigger" (1969) guitar. In service for over 50 years, holes and all. I'm sure a luthier has had to help out here and there.
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,800
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
I would say that since this is a flat-back, spruce-topped D-25, it is just as transitional as an arched-back, mahogany topped D-25, Al. As far as one being before the other, I think that's not correct.
I give up. There was already the D35, introduced the same year as the D25, so why would they make a "transitional" D25 identical to a D35? The most likely explanations are error of labeling or a re-top. Which might be ID'd by a look at the inside of the top.

Re-tops are frequently signed by the luthier as you well know with Cap. ;)

And the sequence WAS first the archback, then the spruce top. That's why all the all-'hog archbacks are concentrated in '73. But it doesn't mean they didn't build both at the same time, or in rotation, (and I don't know if they actually did), but that would logically explain the "mixed" serial numbers like Sandy notes.
 
Last edited:

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,800
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
Well you learn something new everyday! I had an all mahogany '73 archback D25 with a lower serial number, and I thought there were no more flatbacks after the archback was introduced.

And as I mentioned, the most logical explanation is that they were making both types at the same time, but I don't think they would ahve put a spruce top on a flatback D25 except as a mistake.

Or a re-top? ;)
 
Top