DeArmond version of M-85 ?

[hearth_man]

I'm curious, did Guild ever make a DeArmond version of the hollow body (not solid body) M-85 bass?

 

[mavuser]

I do not think so, however, u may want to look for a Guild Newark Street M-85 bass, an excellent instrument they never should have discontinued. pop a Novak Dark Star in there and don't look back!

 

[fronobulax]

I'm curious, did Guild ever make a DeArmond version of the hollow body (not solid body) M-85 bass?

Don't think so. I can't recall ever seeing one or hearing about one.

Curiosity or are you hoping to fill a niche cheaply?

 

[hearth_man]

Well it would be great to find a late 60's M-85-I. I really like the single pickup version. But they hard to come by in general and not to mention affordablely. And the Newark Street are hard to find as well. I have made an offer on one that is currently on reverb.

Just basically looking into all my options I guess. I was also looking into a 60's Hofner Club Bass, similar hollow body construction (not the current production).

 

[Happy Face]

I once pondered the Club bass, partly because of the ultra-thin neck profile and party from the memory of seeing Tina Weymouth wielding one live. But the tonal pallette was too limited.

Plus I still have a 60s Yamaha SA-17 hollowbody which covers that sound very well.

The Newark Street route with Novaks suggested by mavuser makes good sense.

 

[hearth_man]

I my case I'm a guitar player who likes to dabble with bass so the issue of cost is a consideration. Unfortunately I like the older instruments. They don't need to be top end just well made and have a nice sound. Hence a greater interest in the 60's Guilds and Hofners.

The ultra thin neck you mentioned on the 60's Hofner Club is a something that I love on the 60's 500/1 (the current production basses have a wider neck) I found a 1968 Hofner G500/1B a year or two ago for a great price. It is the blonde with bling version of the typical 500/1 violin bass. But this one also has the active Bass Boost electronics. (yep, Hofner in 1968, active electronics)The Bass Boost circuit is the key to a more modern sound. It has three selectable filters and adjustable output boost. So along with the three position pickup selector you have a nice array of sounds beyond the Beatle bass sounds. Anyway, the ultra thin neck and short scale length makes that bass a pleasure to play!

 

[fronobulax]

Well it would be great to find a late 60's M-85-I.

I think you are joining a long line. Vintage, hollow, M-85 I's and II have always been hard to find and come with a hefty premium.

I played a Hofner or clone and it didn't do much for me. Indeed the owner also preferred my NS SF I and was sorry I wouldn't swap even with a few hundred dollars providing equalization.

If you want an old bass with a Guild logo and change from $1000 your best bet is probably a Pilot. Patience might get you a JS but you can expect to deal with a condition that starts at 'well used" and trends towards "abused". (If scale length matters, Pilots are 34". JS's are 30.5". Both are solid bodies which might not be what you want).

A vintage Guild semi-hollow probably starts at $2K. You can get NS new or used for less than $2000 but if you want an inexpensive Guild semi-hollow bass you might look at the current NS Starfire I.

Starfire I Bass Cherry Red | Guild Guitars

An iconic shape at an affordable price, Guild’s Starfire I Bass is a modern adaptation of the traditional Starfire Bass platform.

guildguitars.com

You have some color choices and it looks like new ones are $670.

 

[mavuser]

if u are set on the M-85 try to wrangle a newark street, i know it is not vintage, but with that Novak Dark Star and some play time...it should be really, really good. or else a vintage M-85 or GSR will set u back exponentially, for sure.

If you would vascillate to a SF-1 bass, some vintage examples that are not the greatest cosmetically can be had for less than 2K (my opinion), but will take patience, and those would have noticable cosmetic defects/neck dings etc.

 

[hearth_man]

if u are set on the M-85 try to wrangle a newark street, i know it is not vintage, but with that Novak Dark Star and some play time...it should be really, really good. or else a vintage M-85 or GSR will set u back exponentially, for sure.

If you would vascillate to a SF-1 bass, some vintage examples that are not the greatest cosmetically can be had for less than 2K (my opinion), but will take patience, and those would have noticable cosmetic defects/neck dings etc.

Thanks for the advice Eric. I read your posts on your GSR M-85-II sounds like you those new Dark Star pickups made all the difference. I'm not in a rush so I will keep an eye out for both the NS M-85 as well as a vintage bass. At one time the Starfire bass was of interest, they are nice but I like the smaller hollow body at this point. As far as condition goes I am much happier with a guitar or bass in player condition. I'd be too busy being careful to enjoy an instrument without scratches and dings.. Besides it helps keep the price down.

 

[hearth_man]

I think you are joining a long line. Vintage, hollow, M-85 I's and II have always been hard to find and come with a hefty premium.

I played a Hofner or clone and it didn't do much for me. Indeed the owner also preferred my NS SF I and was sorry I wouldn't swap even with a few hundred dollars providing equalization.

If you want an old bass with a Guild logo and change from $1000 your best bet is probably a Pilot. Patience might get you a JS but you can expect to deal with a condition that starts at 'well used" and trends towards "abused". (If scale length matters, Pilots are 34". JS's are 30.5". Both are solid bodies which might not be what you want).

A vintage Guild semi-hollow probably starts at $2K. You can get NS new or used for less than $2000 but if you want an inexpensive Guild semi-hollow bass you might look at the current NS Starfire I.

Starfire I Bass Cherry Red | Guild Guitars

An iconic shape at an affordable price, Guild’s Starfire I Bass is a modern adaptation of the traditional Starfire Bass platform.

guildguitars.com

You have some color choices and it looks like new ones are $670.

Thanks frono, you are right there are a lot of Guild options. I do have a B301-A solid body that I like but I think I'm moving in the direction of a small hollow body these days. For me that Hofner G500/1B was such an eye opener for both size and scale length. I also have a B4CE acoustic that I really like. Again the smaller body and short scale has me picking it up more often than before.

 

[fronobulax]

At one time the Starfire bass was of interest, they are nice but I like the smaller hollow body at this point.

For what it's worth I find my '67 Starfire thinner and easier to play than @The Guilds of Grot 's M85 I (hollow). Could be memory but it is one of the reasons why a M85 got downgraded from a Grail for me.

 

[fronobulax]

Thanks frono, you are right there are a lot of Guild options. I do have a B301-A solid body that I like but I think I'm moving in the direction of a small hollow body these days. For me that Hofner G500/1B was such an eye opener for both size and scale length. I also have a B4CE acoustic that I really like. Again the smaller body and short scale has me picking it up more often than before.

If you are primarily a guitarist and already have a B4CE and don't mind amplifying it you might be just as happy staying with it.

 

[hearth_man]

If you are primarily a guitarist and already have a B4CE and don't mind amplifying it you might be just as happy staying with it.

As I said since I'm not in a rush I may spend some more time with the B4CE amplified as you suggest. It is not as loud as the B-30 from an acoustic standpoint but it is certainly smaller and more comfortable.

 

[mavuser]

if u come across a GSR M-85, it is certianly worth the money I will say that. However, only get the Novak Dark Stars. That is all u need, and I went thru he** getting all of the push pots, wiring etc installed in the bass, for the two coil tapping Novaks (Dark Star/Bisonic). Also had no wiring diagram...but the real issue was no F-Holes and no back door. believe me, anyone would regret trying to duplicate what I had done. Novak's Bisonics sound great, possibly even better than the originals ...but his Dark Stars are all anyone would need for a GSR M-85 bass, or any bass that has installation challenges (the GSR is beyond a "challenge" for what I had done). Since they are in there, it is nice having the Bisonic options, and I'll be sure to make use of them, after what I went thru to have them. But no way Jose was it worth the extra money or headaches getting it all together. last warning- trust me don't do it on an M-85, unless you have, or are willing to cut out, a back door.

Also the NS M-85 only has one pickup, so much, much, easier...plus moding one of those for a back door is no big deal.

 

[hearth_man]

Is the GSR M85 a solid body? And the NS M-85 a hollow or semi hollow body?

 

[mavuser]

Is the GSR M85 a solid body? And the NS M-85 a hollow or semi hollow body?

GSR is a *fully hollow* body for sure, the only M-85 that was ever made that way. it is a touch thinner than a vintage SF bass, but not by much, it is very very close (I have mine in a Cassady/SF bass case, and the depth is fine) It is a shame only 13 of those GSR M-85's appear to have been made.

The Newark Street M-85 is the same depth as a vintage M-85 from the 60's, those are all quite deep, as eluded to by Frono above. They are either chambered, semi hollow, or semi solid (if there is a difference)

The 70's M-85 is the skinny solid body version with the chrome humbuckers. These weigh a ton, and the JS bass which is essentially the same thing, is a thousand times lighter, and much less expensive.

I am not entirely sold on any Bisonic or Dark Star in any solid body bass. They sound great, for sure...just seems like the pickup wants out, and into a hollow/semi hollow (chambered, etc.)
For a solid M-85 or JS bass from the 70's, I would say look into the "Harry Alembic" pickups where u can fit a battery into the control cavity of those basses. @hieronymous
That would negate the need for a hollow/semi hollow bass

 

[hearth_man]

Very interesting about the GSR M-85. It is a shame they made so few. As for the deeper 60's type body of the NS M-85 I would be fine with that. I actually like that form, a small and deep hollow body bass.

Thanks again for all the info guys!

 

[mavuser]

Also, just a heads up, you can do some research on Kay hollow basses, of which I belive there are at least 3 different vintage versions, two of which are club or club-ish shaped. They also make reissues.
The "value leader" has a very short neck, or so it looks...but those can be had pretty inexpensive (for vintage). I believe the one I have seen Daria Grace play is the "pro" or something to that effect. Hers sounds real nice!

Still, though, I think the move is the Newark Street M-85. That Novak is a drop in upgrade. and the Novak BS/DS w the coil tap and replaced harness is definitley doable in a NS M-85, between the extra depth, and the fact that it is only one pickup, and that if u had to cut out a back door, it wouldn't be so terrible. I don't think you could do better than that, for the money.

 

[hearth_man]

Ok, you have convinced me that the NS M-85 is the way to go, for me at least. I really like the body dimensions, scale length, semi hollow construction, single pickup, cost and the idea of swapping out the stock pickup with the Novak Dark Star. All the positive feedback everyone has given on that pickup pretty much guarantees satisfaction. I'll be getting back to everyone on this when I have one in my hands.

 

[fronobulax]

Ok, you have convinced me that the NS M-85 is the way to go, for me at least. I really like the body dimensions, scale length, semi hollow construction, single pickup, cost and the idea of swapping out the stock pickup with the Novak Dark Star. All the positive feedback everyone has given on that pickup pretty much guarantees satisfaction. I'll be getting back to everyone on this when I have one in my hands.

If your time and budget are driving this then that is not the way to go. But if you are after a Guild, "hollow" and are not interested in a Starfire then you will have something very competitive with a vintage M85 at 1/2 to 1/3 or the price, so go for it.