Does Anyone Own a D-60?

[adorshki]

Yup.
I've been cross-checking GAD's fine bunch of old catalogs on his blog. The oldest catalogs have a very natural progression of sizes and types, but the names Guild used gets confusing and so do the model numbers.

I actually see some good logic in the Gruhn era model numbers: "JF" always designated 17" lower bout F-body, "GF" designated 16" lower bout F body, and at the time the F20 and F30 were in sporadic production: there's still an F20 on his '86 price list but no F30, and they'e both absent in the June '87 list, when the JF's, GF's and D's were the flattop lineup options. Maybe Gruhn just hadn't got around to updating 'em yet?

He became management ca '86 IIRC (designed the first F and D bodies for em in '84 IIRC, the F44 and D44) and brought Kim Walker in too, and Walker has said he was still implementing Gruhn design ideas in the early '90's, after his departure, such as the snakehead headstock. And I suspect the shallow F-body A/E's like my F65ce.

Interesting he was asked to update my beloved 16" F-body platform first. They became the GF series. He also brought a lighter build philosophy after Guild had gone "built like a tank" from the mid '70's to mid '80's.

That's another reason I suspect the renaming of models like the F50 and F50R was more than an arbitrary name change. I suspect they also reflected whatever subtle tweaks to the build may have resulted from the Gruhn/Walker design philosophy, thus, the "Walker D60".

I'm old friends with Ren Ferguson, and he said one of his biggest problems when he became the Fender guy put in charge of getting more Guilds out the factory door was Fender. The management always put Fender's needs of the moment ahead of Guild's.

He said he didn't ever fight with the management when he gave them suggestions on what to change; he said Fender is a really big ship, so it takes a lot time for the company to make a turn and change directions. Any change would have to trickle its way trough a big corporation before anything would change.

When we both worked in Gibson Montana, that division was more independent from headquarters in Nashville. The acoustic guitar division did things differently than in the big Nashville shop, and was a much smaller shop. So when a change was needed, it could happen fast unless there was something major involved in it.
Nashville had over 250 workers, while Montana only had 90 at most, and quite often, fewer than that. And 90 was quite a large acoustic shop for the times.
Nowadays, CAD technology is so good at producing semi-finished parts that are perfect that a smaller crew could be used to do all the fine handwork that's needed to make a high-quality acoustic guitar. 30 years ago, when I first went to work there, Gibson intentionally limited their CAD work and used human labor more.
The shop was built to restore the Gibson reputation for fine hand crafting at at time when Norlin had almost destroyed that reputation. We never made more than 90 guitars a day using all that hand labor at a time when some of the competition were making 200 a day, but we made enough good guitars to bring Gibson back into the acoustic market again making them like they were made 50 years earlier.

To their credit, Fender did establish the Guild Nashville Custom Shop in late '96, and they built some very very fine pieces there, including one of their first production pieces, the 45th Anniversary Valencia. Intended to announce Guild as a force to be reckoned with in the biz, it was based on....the 16" maple F-body, "Valencia" being the original marketing name for the F40.

Note the 45th Anni is a flatback, though. Still, the only thing keeping me from lusting after one is my desire for a 24-3/4 scale. Early F65ce's offered it but had a 1-5/8 nut. Mine is 25-5/8 scale with the 1-5/8 and it's just a tad narrow for me. But they never offered that scale on those bodies with a 1-11/6 nut. So that's my unicorn.

But now perhaps you see why my obsession with "the F40" family is so strong. Most comfortable body I ever played and sounds like voices sometimes.

Also got a '96 D25 and an '03 D40 Richie Havens for when I wanna rock out. Along with the '01 F65ce, all bought new, after the D25 taught me what a good guitar is.

 

[adorshki]

I was always proud of being a part of that. The work burned me out pretty fast, so I didn't last on the job very long, but it was a good job that I enjoyed while I could still do it.
I'm tall and light-boned and light-muscled. Building guitars is actually a very strenuous job when someone is doing it 8 hours a day. It was hard on my joints and tendons, but I still hated to have to quit the work.

MIke I didn't want to forget to mention I've read so many of your post that are treasure troves of info. I don't think I ever said "welcome aboard", yet, but sincerely, Welcome Aboard!!

Not everyone's inclined to tickle the keyboard and share their insights and experience, so it's greatly appreciated. You make me glad I came back after a bit of self-imposed exile.

 

[banjomike]

MIke I didn't want to forget to mention I've read so many of your post that are treasure troves of info. I don't think I ever said "welcome aboard", yet, but sincerely, Welcome Aboard!!

Not everyone's inclined to tickle the keyboard and share their insights and experience, so it's greatly appreciated. You make me glad I came back after a bit of self-imposed exile.

Thanks, adorshki!
Especially a big thanks for your info on the Gruhn era. When I learned he was involved with Guild, I expected that relationship would last for decades, but it came and went in a flash.
But even though it was brief, George sure designed some wonderful guitars for Guild, and Kim Walker sure delivered some powerfully good guitars.
The first thing that impressed me when my D60 arrived was how elegant and well-proportioned it was. It doesn't look flashy, but it sure has a lot of class.
That quality has always been something Guild possessed, but by the 80s, the Guild looked more like a classy guitar made in 1950 than made in 1980. George and Kim did a great job freshening the Guild look while never losing the best parts of the Guild tradition.

That Valencia is a gorgeous guitar!
I'm no fan of abalone binding, but on the Valencia, it really works for me. It looks classy, not gaudy on that guitar. Class seems to be a Guild specialty.

I fully agree that the 16" size is both the most comfortable and best-sounding large size of all. I could never understand why the Gibson J185 never caught on, even though it did once the Everly brothers chose them as their signature model.
These days, with all the girls who are now taking up the guitar, the Valencia with a short-scale neck is a perfect big guitar for them just as much as it's so good for the male players.
That's the way it goes, though... the guitar companies in general are often too quick to discontinue a model that shows some real potential, and are just as often too slow at reviving an old model that's just right for a newer generation of players.

I spent quite a lot of time today looking at the Nightbird series, admiring them. They were the Les Paul Gibson should have made and never did- all the right stuff, but in a lighter, more comfortable package to play, standing or seated. At least 20 years ahead of its time.

Ren never felt like Fender didn't put him to good use, but I did, sometimes. The move from Westerly had many fits and starts, but when Ren was idled, he went to work in the Fender Custom Shop. When I called him to say I just scored an Artist Award, he said he had made a few of those in the Fender shop during times when he wasn't needed in the move.
Ren would never have stayed with Fender for very long. He has always loved Montana too much to ever be away from his home there for more than a couple of months.

That's like me; I'm exactly the same in Idaho. I've never felt truly at home anywhere but here. I guess roots must run deeper in the hardest places to live.

During the 2020 quarantine, a year when I became very ill due to wildfire smoke that settle in here thickly, I began to write a lot. It was the easiest thing I could do, and I've spent a lot of time doing it lately. I was in communications in the Navy, and I can still type pretty fast.

I've been a musician for a very long time and am now past my prime as a player. I was a semi-professional musician for a long time, but I'm not famous at all.
But I've been connected to the industry in some unusual ways, have known quite a few famous folks, and have learned a lot of stuff about acoustic guitars and banjos.
Everyone I know personally has already heard it all, but I think there's lots of folks on the net who haven't ever learned some of the things I know about, so I hope my posts will be informing.

And really, playing the guitar is more about people than the wood box to me. I enjoy sharing some of my experiences that happened doing things I've always loved to do with others. Brevity has never been my friend when I have a tale to tell.

 

[adorshki]

Thanks, adorshki!
During the 2020 quarantine, a year when I became very ill due to wildfire smoke that settle in here thickly, I began to write a lot. It was the easiest thing I could do, and I've spent a lot of time doing it lately. I was in communications in the Navy, and I can still type pretty fast.

I've been a musician for a very long time and am now past my prime as a player. But Ive been connected to the industry, have known quite a few famous folks, and have learned a lot of stuff about acoustic guitars and banjos. Everyone I know has already heard it all, but I think there's lots of folks on the net who haven't ever learned some of the things I know about, and I hope my posts will be informing.

And really, playing the guitar is more about people than the wood box to me. I enjoy sharing some of my experiences that happened doing things I've always loved to do with others. Brevity has never been my friend when I have a tale to tell.

I was born into a family of cowboys. All cowboys love to tell stories. I left the sagebrush behind a long time ago and led an unusual life afterward.

Don't mean to be monomaniacal but just remembered one of my favorite F65ce clips of all time:

 

[banjomike]

Don't mean to be monomaniacal but just remembered one of my favorite F65ce clips of all time:

Oh, my...
A little guitar magic on a Monday night...
How sweet can it get?

 

[banjomike]

I planned on taking some photos and possibly some sound clips of my D-60, but only after my repair guy had checked it out.
He came down with a cold, so I took the old strings off and looked it over myself instead.

The guitar has a few problems. The nut was shaved down and re-slotted too deeply, probably because the neck developed a slight bow from string tension. This always makes the fingering feel harder that it should be. But lots of occasiona and beginningl players don't understand that's what the truss rod is for, so they do the wrong thing trying to make the action play easier by lowering it.
I did that myself years ago.
So now, my guy is over his cold, and he has the guitar. He noticed it has a little sink in the top, so he humidified it to give the spruce some moisture which will swell the top back to normal. That's going to take about 10 more days before he will do anything else. I'm sure he has spotted a few other things it needs now.

I guess it will be a while before I can really give it a workout, but I put a new set of phosphor bronze light gauges on it, and played it as it was a bit before I took it.

I read some comments that the D-60 is a lot lighter than a D-55, and it is, but not by much. Mine is about as heavy a my Gibson AJ, which is medium-weight to me, and it's a little heavier than my 1964 Martin D-21. All 3 are of the same woods and same size, and 2 are the same age.

It's very lively, responsive, and has Big Guild Tone to spare. Strong bass and mids, and a lot of sparkle on top.
I always have hard time trying to put words to sounds, but the tone of the D-60 drops right in the middle between the brash bark of my AJ and the silvery bugle of my D-21. It projects with more authority than the Martin and less than the Gibson, and the overall tone is more lush than either of the other 2.

I really like it's looks. To me, it's a Dreadnought that's dressed up in a tuxedo- elegant but not flashy. The finish is interesting; Guild usually tints the neck to match the color of the rosewood body closely on the D-55, but on this guitar, there was not attempt made at all to match the colors. The neck is colored with the mahogany red filler, and the rosewood body is a cooler and different brown that was filled with transparent filler. But it still looks organically great!

An interesting thing is the elongated slotted-diamond inlays are much narrower than the inlays in the pictures I've seen of the D-60s. These inlays look like slivers compared to the big diamonds in the ad photos. And I like them better. The guitar also has a one piece mahogany neck; no center strip of maple in it. It also has the longest pick guard I've ever seen on a Guild- the pick guard almost touches the bridge. It's very thin tortoiseshell too. The bridge still looks very Guild, but it's been sanded down along the bottom so it has much less mass. The pins look like they're made of bone, and have nice abalone dots.

The butt peg is recessed into a counter-sunk hole, which makes it harder for a strap to pull loose on the peg. The butt wedge is almost not a wedge it's so straight, and is inlet-bound with micro-binding. An oddity I haven't seen on anything but some custom-made guitars.

This made me wonder if Johnny Cash may have influenced this; Cash always swung his guitar over his back sometimes while he sang, so that sunken peg would have been insurance his guitar wouldn't come loose and fall when it was hanging off his back. He and George Gruhn knew each other well.

Alll in all, I can understand why Guild dropped it once George Gruhn had left management. There are pieces of stuff George likes the best another brands all over the guitar, and most of it is outside the Guild tradition in looks and sound.

But one thing about Gruhn- these guitars showed Guild what they needed to build to meet the tastes of the modern acoustic market. This is an extremely high-performing acoustic, and is about 15 years ahead of its time for a factory-made guitar.
One of the first brand new guitars that had the same sonic quality of a guitar made in the 1930s right out of the box.
Guild nailed it while Gibson and Martin played catch-up.

 

[banjomike]

Please pardon the typos... and damn all auto-spellers to hell where they belong.

 

[adorshki]

Please pardon the typos... and damn all auto-spellers to hell where they belong.

It's not "auto-correct", it's "auto-corrupt".

But first thing that jumped out at me was your luthier taking whatever time it took to get the guitar humidified, that's great. I realized a long time ago that possibly fully half or more of the time it takes to get "good" repairs is spent in a humidifying room. SO important in restoring original dimensions to the parts. Only then can any flaws that have developed be addressed properly.

Great review, thanks!

 

[banjomike]

It's not "auto-correct", it's "auto-corrupt".

But first thing that jumped out at me was your luthier taking whatever time it took to get the guitar humidified, that's great. I realized a long time ago that possibly fully half or more of the time it takes to get "good" repairs is spent in a humidifying room. SO important in restoring original dimensions to the parts. Only then can any flaws that have developed be addressed properly.

Great review, thanks!

Yup.
I'm lucky. My luthier was my oldest son's pal in high school years ago and was learning how to play the guitar then. Whenever he would come over, I would let him play one of my guitars, and let him borrow my amp once for one of hi first gigs.

He moved to Seattle and learned the trade there. He became the go-to guy for every touring band who needed a guitar job done right fast, but after he married and had a couple of kids, they decided to come back to his old hometown to raise their family here, where life is slower paced. He lived in downtown Seattle for over 20 years.

The best part of this for me is his home and shop are only about 2 blocks from my house. I never put a time limit on him, but so far, you're right- most of my waiting is while the guitar humidifies.

If humidification isn't needed, I can take it to the bank I'll get a call to come get the guitar in 2 weeks or less.

Just after I posted, I learned my guitar was made in 1988! Thanks to all of you folks who contributed to this thread! I learn something new every time I'm here.

 

[banjomike]

I was going to post some pictures of the D-60 after I got it back from my guitar guy, but life happened.
So, better late than never?

Yup. It sounds as good as it looks.

 

[GGJaguar]

Rich rosewood and notched diamond inlays. Beautiful!

 

[banjomike]

Rich rosewood and notched diamond inlays. Beautiful!

Yeah. I love how Guild's top-range guitars are ornamented. They all look like they're high grade and are classy and dignified looking while still retaining some show-off flash.
It's easy to understand why the D-60 didn't last very long; as the top of the line, the inlays, narrow snake peghead and the absence of a center stripe in the neck were all elements that were too different from the rest of the top-end models for most folks, I suspect.

It does have a much different feeling neck, too. The radius on the fretboard is flatter and the board is wider. For someone who's vwry familiar with Guild dreadnoughts, this would all feel very different instantly.

But howdy! It's a flatpicker's dream for sure- luscious and full when playing back-up, and sharp as a knife when playing a lead line. Volume to spare with no forcing, too. It's a totally different guitar when played fingerstyle, and not as spectacular when played with only the fingers.

Guild doesn't have a reputation for this music, but this guitar has a ton of ability to play it !

 

[banjomike]

Here are my Guilds.
I never gave Guild much thought for 50 years, even though I knew they were good guitars.
...and then, in 2022, I bought 2 of them in one year, both more expensive and higher grade than my usual choices, and with a closet full of Gibsons, Martins, Ibanez, Fenders, and some customs, these 2 Guilds are the only guitars I'm playing regularly now.

Before, I seldom picked a guitar up anymore. Afterward, I have a hard time putting either guitar back in its case for a rest.

 

[banjomike]

I actually see some good logic in the Gruhn era model numbers: "JF" always designated 17" lower bout F-body, "GF" designated 16" lower bout F body, and at the time the F20 and F30 were in sporadic production: there's still an F20 on his '86 price list but no F30, and they'e both absent in the June '87 list, when the JF's, GF's and D's were the flattop lineup options. Maybe Gruhn just hadn't got around to updating 'em yet?

He became management ca '86 IIRC (designed the first F and D bodies for em in '84 IIRC, the F44 and D44) and brought Kim Walker in too, and Walker has said he was still implementing Gruhn design ideas in the early '90's, after his departure, such as the snakehead headstock. And I suspect the shallow F-body A/E's like my F65ce.

Interesting he was asked to update my beloved 16" F-body platform first. They became the GF series. He also brought a lighter build philosophy after Guild had gone "built like a tank" from the mid '70's to mid '80's.

That's another reason I suspect the renaming of models like the F50 and F50R was more than an arbitrary name change. I suspect they also reflected whatever subtle tweaks to the build may have resulted from the Gruhn/Walker design philosophy, thus, the "Walker D60".

To their credit, Fender did establish the Guild Nashville Custom Shop in late '96, and they built some very very fine pieces there, including one of their first production pieces, the 45th Anniversary Valencia. Intended to announce Guild as a force to be reckoned with in the biz, it was based on....the 16" maple F-body, "Valencia" being the original marketing name for the F40.

Note the 45th Anni is a flatback, though. Still, the only thing keeping me from lusting after one is my desire for a 24-3/4 scale. Early F65ce's offered it but had a 1-5/8 nut. Mine is 25-5/8 scale with the 1-5/8 and it's just a tad narrow for me. But they never offered that scale on those bodies with a 1-11/6 nut. So that's my unicorn.

But now perhaps you see why my obsession with "the F40" family is so strong. Most comfortable body I ever played and sounds like voices sometimes.

Also got a '96 D25 and an '03 D40 Richie Havens for when I wanna rock out. Along with the '01 F65ce, all bought new, after the D25 taught me what a good guitar is.

Revisiting this old thread today made me recall how impressed I was with this guitar when you first posted it, addorski.

When I worked at Gibson I had plenty of opportunity to play every model we made, but there were only 2 models that always rang my bell: the Advanced Jumbo and the J-185, the 'Baby J-200".
I came away with an AJ when I left Gibson, but I've never owned a J-185. And now, after my experience with my other Guilds, I think I would rather own a Valencia than the 185; the same kind of guitar, but a better one.

 

[GGJaguar]

That Artist Award!

 

[bobouz]

When I worked at Gibson I had plenty of opportunity to play every model we made, but there were only 2 models that always rang my bell: the Advanced Jumbo and the J-185, the 'Baby J-200".
I came away with an AJ when I left Gibson, but I've never owned a J-185. And now, after my experience with my other Guilds, I think I would rather own a Valencia than the 185; the same kind of guitar, but a better one.

Mike, while reading this, I heard a scream from the other room.
It was this guy!

 

[banjomike]

Mike, while reading this, I heard a scream from the other room.
It was this guy!

I always liked these more than the J-200 as a player; the 185's mahogany neck and it's 16" size and dimensions give it a smoother tone that doesn't have the brittleness maple sometimes gives to the sound. The sound has better balance between treble and bass and is more neutral- no note jumps out more than another note.
For sure, the Everly brothers knew these qualities; their first guitars were standard J-200s, like Ike Everly's guitar, but when they were able to choose the guitar that would carry their name on it, they both chose the 185. Their first set were trimmed to look like J-200s, with mustache bridges,crown inlays and the sunflower pickguards, but the construction was all 185. These guitars were both custom-ordered before the duo became famous.

The Everly Bros. Model had only one distinctly different part; the bridge. It was designed to the brother's specifications. The bridge lacks pins, and was designed to increase the guitars sustain while killing some of its volume.
This bridge allowed them a very fast string change when a string broke onstage, and the sustain allowed them to put more effort into their singing than their strumming. Very good for their slow ballads and love songs.
And when they rocked out, they could get really physical with their guitars and their singing wouldn't be over-powered with the forceful strumming's volume.

 

[banjomike]

That Artist Award!

Yeah.
I've always had a big Jones for maple guitars. The first guitar I ever noticed as being something special when I was a kid was made of maple.

 

[HeyMikey]

That’s a cool bit of history there!

 

[banjomike]

That’s a cool bit of history there!

Thanks.
I didn't mention that Phil Everly designed the Everly Bros. guitar pickguards. Those mustache pickguards were actually used on the first custom-order guitars they played. They sure made their model distinctive, and his design was much better than the one Norlin replaced it with.
Most folks believe they dampen the top too much, and they do cut down some of the volume, but the originals had very sweet, beautiful tone, and they mic'ed very well.
Interestingly Phil's design was so large for an obvious reason; both of them strummed hard, so the top needed much protection from the flatpicks, but they also drew the audience's eyes away from the strings. One of the brothers broke a lot of 3rd strings with his pick attack. If a string broke in the middle of a song, the broken string flopping around wasn't so noticeable against the big ornamental pickguards.

Back then, it was just the 2 of them onstage with no band for support. All TV was live too.
So the brothers had to learn how to carry on when something like a broken string could force them to stop their act. All the rockers had to learn how to play on TV. It was different stagecraft than it is now, but a mistake on live TV could kill a band's popularity in an instant if the band didn't learn how to cover it up while carrying on.
Rock and roll was hard work for all of its first-generation performers.

Imagine the pressure the Everlys were under... they were just kids from the country who learned to sing from their parents, and had never even visited any really big city in their lives. And there they were on the Ed Sullivan Show, where everything was performed live, with no serious rehearsal, and broadcast so up-close 18 million viewers could count every drop of flop sweat that dripped from their chins. Less than a year after their first record was cut.
And it was just the 2 of them and their guitars. All they had was about 2 1/2 minutes of time, and that time would either cement their fame or make their audience drop kick them back to Kentucky, where they would soon be forgotten.
To me, that's like crossing over the Grand Canyon at a narrow spot on a high wire with nothing but a long balance pole. It ain't the distance that scares me, it's the little slip that's terrifying.