Explain the Starfire to Me

[Rich Cohen]

To all those LTGers who are Starfire players and fans:
Can you explain to me the best points about the many different Starfire models? I am totally confused, and too lazy to figure it out on my own. Is it primarily about the various pups that models have come with? Or, is there more to it? I get full bodied archtops with neck pickups. I suppose because I'm not a rock or rockabilly player it is the source of my ignorance.
Thanks!

 

[Guildedagain]

I shouldn't be the 1st to answer, but the higher the # the more $.

Same pickups in the same years. Starfire III is a Starfire II with a Guildsby.

The VI is the fanciest.

The earliest ones have DeArmond p'ups, starting in about '65 "Anti Hums", then by the late 60's HB1's with dual adjustment screws on the bass side.

1st year of production 1960.

End of original production in the late 70's?

 

[SFIV1967]

Simply talking guitars (not Starfire I or Starfire II basses):

Click on the model names to see a video.

Starfire I: One pickup, single cut, hollow body (in the video is an added bigsby which was not original) - 1960 to 1964 (not too many exist)
Starfire II: Two pickups, single cut, hollow body - 1960 to 2003
Starfire III: Two pickups, single cut, hollow body, Guildsby - 1960 to 2005
Starfire IV: Double cut, hollow with center block - 1963 to 2005
Starfire V: Double cut, Guildsby, hollow with center block - 1963 to 2002
Deep Starfire V or Starfire V XD: Double cut, deeper version if Starfire V with Guild harp tailpiece.
Starfire VI: Double cut, Guildsby, fancy version with gold hardware, hollow with center block - 1964 to 1979
Starfire VII: The "Deep Starfire". Double cut, fancy. Only 6-7 were produced, pictures are available of 6 so far. (the story in the video is wrong)
Starfire XII: Double cut, 12 string, hollow with center block (there is the wrong tailpiece in the video) - 1966 to 1973

There were different pickup versions for most models over time and the appointments and details changed over time.
Also some models were discontinued for a few years and re-introduced later on. I just gave the beginning and end of the production time from Hoboken till Corona and skipped in between production stops. No SF production in Tacoma.

New Hartford released one GSR Starfire VI in very limited volume which had a different body shape.

In general the Korean (Starfire II, III, IV, V, VI, IV-12) made Newark St. models which started in 2013 use to follow that naming scheme. The "XII" is now called "IV-12" however...

And CMG confused everybody with the additional lower cost "Starfire I" family made in Indonesia which contains both single cut and double cut models which look like Starfire II, II, IV and V models but have nothing to do with the historic single cut Starfire I model... "Starfire I" stands now for the lowest cost models.

Ralf

 

[GAD]

The 1997 catalog mentions "the Starfire’s return after a 23 year absence" talking about the Starfire III. There are years without Starfires of any type in the catalogs. If memory serves the 1990 catalog has no Starfires at all.

 

[Rich Cohen]

Thanks for the explanation(s). It sounds confusing still; i.e., how does someone know what to choose? Are there sonic similarities enough so that it doesn't matter which one you end up with? I think I know the answer: "it depends."

 

[mavuser]

Starfire V was discontinued in the early 70's, I believe. The IV became available with some or all features the V previously had. the V may have returned mid-late 90s.

 

[mavuser]

Rich, the biggest difference on the Starfires is fully hollow w/floating bridge (SF-1,2,3); or semi hollow (SF-4,5,6) which became available with floating or drilled bridges, archtop/harp tailpiece or drilled tailpiece (or bigsby).

the SF-1,2,3 is fully hollow like a violin. maybe a bit of one-trick pony, but possibly the sweetest tone i've ever heard. the SF-4,5,6 covers it all. i'm not so in love with the floating bridges, regardless of the model, but have found on some late 70s examples they did not give me any problems.

I owned and sold a 1997 SF-2, and still own a 1984 SF-4 w Guildsby.

 

[SFIV1967]

It sounds confusing still; i.e., how does someone know what to choose? Are there sonic similarities enough so that it doesn't matter which one you end up with? I think I know the answer: "it depends."

Well, it is a down selection process. What mavuser said and also if you want a bigsby? Take III, V or VI. You want no bigsby? Take II, IV. Floating brige with harp tailpiece? Or fixed bridge with stop tailpiece? So there are many variables in the models. Or think about the many pickups used over time. People have preferences.
Ralf

 

[GGJaguar]

I know you said you weren't a humbucker guy when you sold the X-700, so maybe that limits the choice right there? That would leave the early Starfire II and III with DeArmond single coils or the Starfire III-90 with P-90s.

 

[musicofanatic]

Thanks for the explanation(s). It sounds confusing still; i.e., how does someone know what to choose? Are there sonic similarities enough so that it doesn't matter which one you end up with? I think I know the answer: "it depends."

If not fully stated above, the sonic difference between the I/II/III (all hollow), and the higher SF model numbers (semi-solid) is marked. Nearly every semi-solid body guitar I have played (admittedly, mostly Gibsons of the 335/345/355 varieties and 1960s Epiphones such as Riviera and Sheratons) sound more like a solid body than a hollow body. Having owned and played many full depth/fully hollow/laminated plate electric guitars, I find minimal detectable sonic difference between thin and full depth hollow electric guitars. Hope I have made myself clear...?

 

[parker_knoll]

Starfire V was discontinued in the early 70's, I believe. The IV became available with some or all features the V previously had. the V may have returned mid-late 90s.

Yes it did. I was recently looking at 2001 SFV but decided I ought to pay my rent instead

 

[cupric]

I have a good acoustic, a great Strat, and my GX. So I have most bases covered for my needs. I just bought the SFlll because it looked so good. I've had other fully hollow Guilds in the past, and I had a vintage Gibson 335 for many years.
The first noticeable difference between the SF and my other guitars, ( besides looks...the SF is beautiful), is complexity. You need to mix and experiment with the volumes and tone controls because there's so many sounds avsilable. The other big noticeable thing is the tone, this guitar is musical. It sounds more complex. It has great high end acoustic tone, but it can also sound like a Les Paul. It can wail. It's a bit like old school meets new, if that makes sense.

 

[musicofanatic]

it can also sound like a Les Paul

This surprises me! A fully hollow guitar? Is this a recent issue or vintage? US or import? Wide nut width? It does look great! Thanks!

 

[GAD]

Let's simplify the discussion. We're talking about the original model numbers here:

[scroll down two posts if you want all this simplified]

SFI: You'll probably never encounter one (Forget the NS for now)

SFII: Hollow
SFIII: Hollow with Bigsby
SFIV: SemiHollow
SFV: SemiHollow with Bigsby

SFVI: Derivation of IV or V
SF7: You'll probably never encounter one
SFXII: 12 String

Only four matter if we ignore bling, rare occurrences, and 12-strings: the II, III, IV, and V.

First, decide if you want a Bigsby. Then you're down to II/IV or III/V
Next, decide if you want a Hollow or Semi-Hollow. Then you're down to the II/III or IV/V

The intersection of those two decisions will determine what guitar you want/need.

Why pick a hollow? Hollow bodies are more lively, they're lighter, and they sound more airy. They are feedback machines, though.
Why pick a semi? Semis are much less prone to feedback and they have bit of a "thicker" tone more like a solidbody. They're also much heavier.

Why pick a Bigsby? Because you need one. If you want to warble notes or go full-on Brian Setzer, you gotta have one.
Why not pick a Bigsby? Because you'll never use it (some people just don't like them).

 

[cupric]

This surprises me! A fully hollow guitar? Is this a recent issue or vintage? US or import? Wide nut width? It does look great! Thanks!

Yes, fully hollow. 1997 Starfire lll. Westerly made.
Amp in picture is not mine. I just bought this over the last month or so.

 

[GAD]

Here - I made something that should appeal to your educational background.

As a side note, I taught programming until about a year ago and when I'd use VENN diagrams for logic people's heads would just hit the desk. It amazes me that something that makes SO much sense just seemed to turn people off so quickly. Now I pretty much only see them in memes.

 

[KuuKOO]

To stir the pot -- what's the difference between the SF-III Guildsby (bigsby B3 ish) and SF-V+ (bigsby B7). One has the tension bar and must be attached to the top, correct? What's the difference in tone or action? The Bigsby page says:

• Model B-7 is designed for thin electric guitars with more downward pressure

But that doesn't really assist. I know some people on forums have a hate on for the tension bar...

 

[mavuser]

some SF-IV's have factory bigbys (Guildsbys), like mine (available after SF-V was discontinued)

 

[GAD]

To stir the pot -- what's the difference between the SF-III Guildsby (bigsby B3 ish) and SF-V+ (bigsby B7). One has the tension bar and must be attached to the top, correct? What's the difference in tone or action? The Bigsby page says:

• Model B-7 is designed for thin electric guitars with more downward pressure

But that doesn't really assist. I know some people on forums have a hate on for the tension bar...

I couldn’t possibly compare tone because there’s no easy way to do a like-for-like comparison.

For me anything that has to be acrewed into the top is a problem because it can’t be removed without leaving a huge hole. That said my Blue SFV is one of the best Guilds I own.

 

[mavuser]

simply put, SF-2/3 is in a class of it's own. the archtop tailpiece and floating bridge can limit technique, but that tone is full on grail.
a SF-4/5/6 also sounds sweet, and at the top of its class, but completely different.

Tony Scherr's SF-2 (1965? that's what he told me) with Gibson/Duncan humbuckers