lonesome picker
Member
It looks like it has a split saddle. Perhaps there was intonation problems with the long scale.
F-612 sighting
- Thread starter lonesome picker
- Start date
wileypickett
Enlightened Member
If Pete would move his damn hand out of the way we'd know for sure!
I almost got scalped by the pickguard assembly of Pete's guitar when the Who opened for the Doors at the Singer Bowl in NYC in 1968. The Who pulled out all the stops, wrecking their equipment at the end of their set. After wolloping the guitar on the stage and into the mic stand a few times, Pete grabbed the pickguard -- which was hanging off the guitar, pickups still attached -- and scaled it into the crowd like a Frisbee. I actually felt the wind of the thing in my hair as it whizzed over my head. A guy in the row behind me snagged it.
SFIV1967
Venerated Member
Pete Townshend has one.
According to Hans that is indeed a F-612, even that it has not the "usual" F-612 binding (well, what is "usual...")
How many F612’s were produced and how many are accounted for today?
Ralf, Thank you that looks more like it... With so many Guild urban legends going around its great to dispel just a few of them.
letstalkguild.com
Ralf
SydShanshala
Junior Member
That’s actually JD’s original 612, it was retopped/rebuilt in the mid 70s. The serial number is the same as the “first” 612, so he only ever had one. And the earlier “pre612” 12er was a braz 412 special.
lonesome picker
Member
Interesting info. I've always wondered what his earlier 12 was. I had always assumed it was a F212XL with a custom fretboard. I thought the body looked mahogany to me. Plus the lack of anything on the headstock except the peaked Guild made me thing it was something less upscale. Is this the same instrument he played in the Mitchell Trio on this occasions he got to show off his guitar playing?
Syd, are you sure about that? I don't recall ever hearing that before.
Central Florida Folkie
Member
Do believe that prior to his 612 JD played a 512; the one he’s holding on the cover of “Rhymes and Reasons” and “Poems, Prayers, and Promises” without a Chesterfield logo…but I could be wrong (wouldn’t be the first time, won’t be the last) By the time you watch his first US TV specials and the Red Rocks Concert from 1974 that was on PBS last year, I think he’s up to a fancier 512 with the G shield logo but same fret markers as in these album cover pics, then he gets the custom 612 not shortly thereafter.
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SFIV1967
Venerated Member
That was the mentioned Braz "F-412 Special". (see also Hans book page 109) EDIT: I did not mean to say that JD's one was pictured on page 109, it is the same kind of model however.
Ralf
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Central Florida Folkie
Member
Well there ya go!
Rich Cohen
Senior Member
You mean to say that the F-412 braz special had an arched back? That seems impossible. I've never heard f such a construction.
SFIV1967
Venerated Member
Yes. See page 109 in Hans book!
Ralf
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I'm not sure that was JD's guitar though, Ralf. Do you know that for sure?
Just to be clear, yes, there was an F-412 special (made of laminated, arched Brazilian rosewood), which was a brother to the F-50 Rosewood that I used to have. The actual guitar that I think Hans photographed for his book was owned by Brad here and later sold to Henk (when Hans photographed it). Henk now also has my F-50R.
Rich, did you miss all the photo spreads I did of "Cap," the 1967 F-50 Rosewood that I had, Rich? That was indeed a laminated, arched Brazilian back which was bookmatched with a center strip. Pretty unique from that era, Rich. Here's a picture of the Back, Rich.
SFIV1967
Venerated Member
No. That is not what I said, I only referred to that model! JD's one looked similar.
Ralf
Fair enough. I'm pretty sure it is what Syd said earlier though, and I'm questioning that.
SFIV1967
Venerated Member
I think the guitar we're talking about is the one from the video below, Ralf. Just checking. Right? I believe this is a bit of a mystery because of the following reasons:
#1) It is ba braced flat-back, not an arch-back like the 1967 F-412 SPEC that has been suggested;
#2) The fretboard inlays are incorrect for an F-412 SPEC.
#3) It's very hard to tell from a video of a relatively small man like JD, but it looks bigger than the 17" jumbos.
It's possible there were flat-backed F-412 SPECs; I don't know; I've never heard of them. It's also possible JD had those inlays done himself, but they look like the special inlays that Carlo Greco did for the F-612 -- and '69/'70 inlays we've seen on some F-512s -- but the bridge is a cloud without the stars I expect.
I also have heard some conjecture that JD played an F-212XL before he played the F-612. I doubt that too, as this guitar looks like rosewood to me.
I think this guitar is an F-612, Ralf, before the specs were clear (ornate headstork, herringbone trim, etc.).
[edit: Oh, I forgot to mention one other thing... This is apocryphal, but worth mentioning. The history of my old archie F-50R was that Dave Van Ronk had one of the same guitars. That was from the mouth of first owner (Capquest) who had visited Hoboken at the time it was built. There was never any mention of John Denver with that back of archies, and I would've suspected (again, apocryphal) that that would've been pretty relevant news.]
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Central Florida Folkie
Member
This is a fun and fascinating debate…and yes, Chazmo, I have to think that’s the guitar. 1969 would place that as the same one on the “Rhymes and Reasons” cover, and probably “P, P & P’s” as well. That’s a great old clip! Thanks for sharing…
SFIV1967
Venerated Member
Another picture of the guitar in question:
The rosette is exactly like for the F-412 Special on Page 109. Not like a F512 or F-612 rosette. The neck is bound however, that was noted already earlier. Also notice the now enlarged pickguard vs. the guitar in the video! In the video you already see the light area between the pickguard and the bridge.
He had that guitar already played in August 1968. The color picture looking like rosewood.
This picture from the Philadelphia Folk Festival 1968 shows a bit of the back:
I still would guess it is a F-412 Special (no other model fits) but made with flat backed braz.
Maybe possible to measure the body width with the help of the knowledge of the width of the fretboard at the end
Ralf
The rosette is exactly like for the F-412 Special on Page 109. Not like a F512 or F-612 rosette. The neck is bound however, that was noted already earlier. Also notice the now enlarged pickguard vs. the guitar in the video! In the video you already see the light area between the pickguard and the bridge.
He had that guitar already played in August 1968. The color picture looking like rosewood.
This picture from the Philadelphia Folk Festival 1968 shows a bit of the back:
I still would guess it is a F-412 Special (no other model fits) but made with flat backed braz.
Maybe possible to measure the body width with the help of the knowledge of the width of the fretboard at the end
Ralf
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wileypickett
Enlightened Member
I'm still chuckling over "headstork"!