Guild F-46 (G. Gruhn, 1984) is available

Yura

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Hi, hunting around for F-50R, I saw that Guild F-46 (1984) became available in GC a little while ago.
Hope it will make someone happy here (given that less than 130 were made, as far as I know).
Good luck !

- https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/G...HOIuzXnLOHqiEmPuo78wuK1vu86OEtj4aAgq4EALw_wcB

Guild F-46 (1984) .jpg
 

Rocky

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Nice. As a Nightbird guy, I love the appointments, but I have trouble letting go of the cash.
 

Rocky

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Never noticed it before, but on an acoustic, those notched diamonds bear a passing resemblance to a Nick Lucas.
1928-gibson-nick-lucas-special-sunburst-YN1Bp5n.jpg
 

banjomike

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Never noticed it before, but on an acoustic, those notched diamonds bear a passing resemblance to a Nick Lucas.
1928-gibson-nick-lucas-special-sunburst-YN1Bp5n.jpg
Like a lot of Gibson inlay patterns, this one was used on a mandolin first. Nick ordered it on his custom L-3 before Gibson made the Lucas. It was the first endorsement model Gibson made, and was a big success, but Nick himself continued to play his L-3 for years, and finally got around to playing an actual Nick Lucas model in the 1940's. His own Nick had a 14-fret neck, the later bridge, and was painted solid black. This first model has a 13-fret neck on the early body style. This guitar was the first Gibson made that wasn't a 12-fret to the body guitar. Around 1938, the body shape was changed to the final shape of the small-bodied L-00, L-0, and the rest of the series.
The Nick Lucas body is as deep as a Jumbo. They're a small guitar with a very big sound; one of my favorite Gibsons.

For the tenor banjo players of the day, the Nick Lucas was offered as a custom-order, and could be obtained with a Gibson tenor neck on it. This was a very popular choice for the banjoists who were losing their jobs as the tenor banjo faded away in jazz music, which was becoming a smoother kind of dance music. The orchestras of the day used a guitar for rhythm instead of the banjo.

The tenor Nicks are more common than the other neck the banjoists played. The plectrum banjo was an older 4-string design that replaced the 5-string banjo in dance bands of the early 20th century (1900-1920), and the plectrum has a sweeter tone, but was more difficult to play well.
The plectrum also didn't record as well as the tenor back then, a time when records began really selling in large numbers.
The tenor is tuned in 5ths, like the violin family, a tuning that really projects. So most banjo professionals adopted it, but a few still stuck with their plectrums.
Gibson made all 3 banjo styles back then, so on rare occasions, they got an order for a Nick plectrum. Martin, E[iphone, Gretsch, Bacon and Vega all made them, but they're all as scarce as hen's teeth today.
 
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chazmo

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Mike, Hans, are these inlays examples of Guild purchasing the inlays from someone else, or were these cut in Westerly?
 

hansmoust

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Mike, Hans, are these inlays examples of Guild purchasing the inlays from someone else, or were these cut in Westerly?
Cutting pearl for inlay purposes has been a specialized business going back as far as before the second World War. No pearl was ever cut in Westerly, but some inlays were cut by Carlo Greco during the times they ran out of simple G-inlays for the headstock; that was still Hoboken though.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

WaltW

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I recently missed out on a F47R cutaway(Florentine) New Hartford $2500. + shipping. Saw it, watched it and went back 2 days later and it ended. It looked barely played.

Yura, there a a couple of F50Rs on Reverb. I have no idea what a realistic price is. 1974 for $3500. and a 2005 for $2800.
 

chazmo

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Cutting pearl for inlay purposes has been a specialized business going back as far as before the second World War. No pearl was ever cut in Westerly, but some inlays were cut by Carlo Greco during the times they ran out of simple G-inlays for the headstock; that was still Hoboken though.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
I didn't know that, Hans! Thanks for clarifying!!!
 

chazmo

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Yura, there a a couple of F50Rs on Reverb. I have no idea what a realistic price is. !974 for $3500. and a2005 for $2800.
Too high, Walt. I wouldn't pay that kind of money. The 2005 one would be good for > $500 less. The 1974 is not priced to sell at all.

Just my $.02, Walt.
 

Yura

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I recently missed out on a F47R cutaway(Florentine) New Hartford $2500. + shipping. Saw it, watched it and went back 2 days later and it ended. It looked barely played.

Yura, there a a couple of F50Rs on Reverb. I have no idea what a realistic price is. 1974 for $3500. and a 2005 for $2800.
Thank you WaltW for that info, a similar one is currently on the way to me. But I'm struggling to find one I really connect with (especially the balance aspect of scooped mids) , hopefully this one will be it.
 

banjomike

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Mike, Hans, are these inlays examples of Guild purchasing the inlays from someone else, or were these cut in Westerly?
Hi, Chazmo...
Gibson Montana had pearl cutting facilities during my first hitch there in a separate building (the old 'red barn' where the Flatiron mandolins were made). That part of the business still totally belonged to Steve Carlson, the former owner of Flatiron The finished inlays were mostly the abalone used for ornamental purfling, but fingerboard inlays were made as well.
There was only one guy who did all the inlay setting then, and he could cut pearl as nicely as he set it. He did all the initial Custom Shop inlays, but eventually left to work at Weber Mandolins.
That was from 1989-91. When I went back 10 years later- 2000-2003, the fretboards for all the standard models arrived at the shop slotted and inlaid, needing only to be mounted onto the necks, fretted, and sometimes bound. I don't know if that work came from the Red Barn or somewhere else.
And during that second hitch, there was one gal who did nothing but custom inlay work as her job and at least 3 others who could do it all who worked both on the floor and in the Custom Shop. I'm sure all the pre-cut inlays were cut on a CAD cutting machine, as none of them ever had the fine saw cuts in them that several of Gibson's classic patterns have always had.

Hans is correct- almost all of the available pre-cut inlays came from Europe, where apparently, such work was mostly cottage industry, done on kitchen tables, as a way to make some extra money.
Pearl was cut in a small Italian town that became famous for that stuff, and another town of the same small size in Germany also became famous for it's pre-cut pearl.
Today, Viet Nam has taken over from both of them. I heard that as a home industry, the European towns both had problems trying to lure their youngsters into learning the craft. The Viet Nam industry was begun by an American wholesale merchant who married a Vietnamese lady, and after visiting her homeland, started setting people there who were already good inlay cutters to learning how to do the American patterns.
That was over 20 years ago, so it's now a mature cottage industry.
 

chazmo

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Thanks for all the great info, guys. I had no idea!!! I don't think I paid enough attention when we toured the area of New Hartford where they did the inlay work. As I recall, there were a couple of ladies who worked those stations and that was their specialty. It never even occurred to me at the time to ask how the pearl and paua were being cut prior to getting to them.
 

wileypickett

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Thanks for all the great info, guys. I had no idea!!! I don't think I paid enough attention when we toured the area of New Hartford where they did the inlay work. As I recall, there were a couple of ladies who worked those stations and that was their specialty. It never even occurred to me at the time to ask how the pearl and paua were being cut prior to getting to them.

I remember the women doing the pearl soundhole rosettes, but I don't remember anyone doing inlay. (Maybe we had different tour guides?!)
 

chazmo

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I remember the women doing the pearl soundhole rosettes, but I don't remember anyone doing inlay. (Maybe we had different tour guides?!)
You might be right, Glenn. As I said, I wasn't paying close enough attention at that part of the tour. :( :(
 

chazmo

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Do you remember seeing any CNC cutting of inlays or rosettes, Glenn? I'm drawing a complete blank on that.
 

banjomike

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Even if Guild had the equipment and ability to cut inlays, it's unlikely that stuff would be included in a factory tour.

The shell dust, especially the abalone dust, is toxic, and can be downright dangerous to someone with a shellfish sensitivity.
So if it existed at Guild, that factory space would be entirely closed from the rest of the factory with its own air filtration system and restricted access. That's primarily for the factory's worker's safety.
Those who do the work all wear bunny suits, fresh-air respirators and gloves when cutting pearl with CAD cutters. It's all done wet, with a continuous water bath that also has a filtration system.

The dust irritates the eye and skin as well as the lungs. Oyster shell isn't as toxic as abalone, and there is shell no one will ever use; conch shell is so hard, it's perfectly safe to handle intact, but the dust when it's cut is highly toxic. (Shellfish toxin, a popular assassination tool, is produced from some types of shells, not the critter that once lived in it, while other toxins do come from the critter. The nautilus is one where both can kill a person, along with several other cuttlefish.)

Hand-cutting is much slower and produces less dust, so those who do it usually only need to wear a high-filtration disposable mask, gloves,and coverings for the arms. The cutting can be dry when done by hand, with constant wipe-downs using disposable wipes.

In Vietnam, it's all done outside, as far as I know. The workers there must just rinse themselves off frequently to keep from getting sick.

Some of the wood used commonly for guitar making is also irritating/toxic too. Cedar, redwood, cocobolo, ipe, and some other woods are all very irritating and can cause particle pneumonia to set in when a worker isn't protected from the sawdust. But none of the wood is as toxic as the shells, so it takes longer exposure to them, so a particle mask and gloves is usually enough to keep a worker safe.
 

wileypickett

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Do you remember seeing any CNC cutting of inlays or rosettes, Glenn? I'm drawing a complete blank on that.

I do remember the CNC machines and spaces for the logos and what-not being cut into the headstock. The toxicity, as Banjomike notes, may be the reason we didn't see any inlay being done.

Except for the soundhole rosettes -- which looked like shell or MOP -- being laid in in strips. Maybe it was some kind of synthetic material?
 

davismanLV

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I'm not sure if things have changed with GC, but when I bought my Taylor new, they were like totally willing to barter... (I got a KILLER DEAL) and then when I vacillated to a used guitar, they shut down. No negotiation on used AT ALL. So I went with the Taylor. I'm kind of a jerk, in a polite way, when negotiating for a guitar. After an hour of back and forth, I offered $2K out the door including case and tax. I'd offered more earlier but they didn't realize how irritating I could be. Finally the GM said, just give it to him at that price and get him the F out of here!!! Nice to know my nature can be so persuasive!! LMAO!! :);):)
 
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