Guild Starfire Bass ?

[frettedstrings]

On Facebook, the owner of Just Strings.com posted this picture of a 1996 Guild Starfire Bass.

A friend said that Guild was coming out with a new Starfire Bass and I found that www.guildguitars.com

I understand that this new Starfire Bass is part of the Newark St. Collection and lists for $1599.00, but I see that 2013 GSR Starfire Basses are listed on ebay for much higher prices:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GUILD-2012-...E-/290858746620?pt=Guitar&hash=item43b88842fc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Guild-GSR-S...W-/300845573346?pt=Guitar&hash=item460bcb24e2


What are the difference between a 1960's Starfire Bass and the New Starfire Basses?


-frettedstrings

 

[The Guilds of Grot]

Some info here; http://letstalkguild.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=35369&hilit=starfire+bass

And here for the GSR's; http://letstalkguild.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=35434&hilit=starfire+bass&start=0

Then over here for the Newark St.; http://letstalkguild.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=35213&hilit=starfire+bass

 

[fronobulax]

First, the bass in the first picture should be a 1966 or perhaps even 1965. The key thing to note is that the PU is in the "sweet spot" near the bridge and not right at the neck.

Guild made a limited edition GSR Starfire I with the PU in the sweet spot that has often been discussed as noted in Kurt's links. Note that the body shape of the GSR is NOT identical to the shape and dimensions of a 1960's Starfire. There were something like 9 SF I's and 11 SF II's made in the GSR run if I remember correctly.

Guild has announced a new series, Newark Street. These instruments are patterned after vintage instruments but are deliberately not copies or reissues of the vintage instruments. Originals were purchased and reverse engineering to come up with the Newark Street line. The Newark Street Starfire bass was patterned after a "sweet spot" 1966 Starfire I. These will eventually be made in production quantities which I presume is a couple hundred or more a year.

The quick differences, using a '66 as the standard.

The GSR SF I has different body dimensions and a NOS Guild humbucker as produced and used circa 1970-77.

The Newark Street has a different truss rod cover and no one knows how the (new) Guild Bisonic compares to the (vintage) Hagstrom bisonic. There may be other subtle differences but other than the prototype at the NAMM show no one has seen or played one.

 

[frettedstrings]

I think I'd rather play the 1966 Starfire 1, anyway !

-frettedstrings

 

[frettedstrings]

First, the bass in the first picture should be a 1966 or perhaps even 1965. The key thing to note is that the PU is in the "sweet spot" near the bridge and not right at the neck.

Guild made a limited edition GSR Starfire I with the PU in the sweet spot that has often been discussed as noted in Kurt's links. Note that the body shape of the GSR is NOT identical to the shape and dimensions of a 1960's Starfire. There were something like 9 SF I's and 11 SF II's made in the GSR run if I remember correctly.

Guild has announced a new series, Newark Street. These instruments are patterned after vintage instruments but are deliberately not copies or reissues of the vintage instruments. Originals were purchased and reverse engineering to come up with the Newark Street line. The Newark Street Starfire bass was patterned after a "sweet spot" 1966 Starfire I. These will eventually be made in production quantities which I presume is a couple hundred or more a year.

The quick differences, using a '66 as the standard.

The GSR SF I has different body dimensions and a NOS Guild humbucker as produced and used circa 1970-77.

The Newark Street has a different truss rod cover and no one knows how the (new) Guild Bisonic compares to the (vintage) Hagstrom bisonic. There may be other subtle differences but other than the prototype at the NAMM show no one has seen or played one.

Frono,

I bet your 67' Starfire I has a really nice tone !

-frettedstrings

 

[fronobulax]

I think I'd rather play the 1966 Starfire 1, anyway !

-frettedstrings

Compared to what? People who have played the '65/'66 with the sweet spot positioning say it sounds better than a '66-'70 Starfire I with the neck positioning and I believe them and vaguely recall sound clips.

The Newark Street kind of hinges on how well the reverse engineered pickup captures the sound of the original. If it does then for the vast majority of players there will be no functional reason to buy a vintage bass instead of a Newark Street one.

Of course it will be several weeks before anyone has the answer to that ;-)

 

[fronobulax]

Frono,

I bet your 67' Starfire I has a really nice tone !

-frettedstrings

It does. I'm a legend in my own mind and I can sometimes imagine the tone has something in common with Jack Casady's tone on Bless Its Pointed Little Head or this.

 

[frettedstrings]

Frono,

I bet your 67' Starfire I has a really nice tone !

-frettedstrings

It does. I'm a legend in my own mind and I can sometimes imagine the tone has something in common with Jack Casady's tone on Bless Its Pointed Little Head or this.

Frono,

So, is that you (the blond, long-haired guy, playing the Starfire I Bass Solo) starting at the 2:00 mark?

-frettedstrings

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHmiFHzPqbM

 

[fronobulax]

Frono,

I bet your 67' Starfire I has a really nice tone !

-frettedstrings

It does. I'm a legend in my own mind and I can sometimes imagine the tone has something in common with Jack Casady's tone on Bless Its Pointed Little Head or this.

Frono,

So, is that you (the blond, long-haired guy, playing the Starfire I Bass Solo) starting at the 2:00 mark?

-frettedstrings

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHmiFHzPqbM

Only in my dreams. The clip is Jack Casady of Jefferson Airplane and Hot Tuna fame. Never had round glasses and my hair never got much past my shoulders.

 

[dapmdave]

Here's what my '67 sounds like (pickup in neck position): http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... D=12123860

As you hear the simple bass line, bear in mind that I am not worthy to call myself a bassist. But I think that old SF1 makes some nice meaty tone.

Dave

 

[mavuser]

Here's what my '67 sounds like (pickup in neck position): http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... D=12123860

As you hear the simple bass line, bear in mind that I am not worthy to call myself a bassist. But I think that old SF1 makes some nice meaty tone.

Dave

I like the meaty tone of the neck pick up as well. I did just order a Newark Street SF1 with the bridge pup, which I am thrilled about...but think the "sweet spot" vs. the "meat spot" is a matter of opinion/preference and one is not necessarily better than the other. I'm a little surprised the Newark Street bass only has one pick up and not 2...but definitely not disappointed. for my own preference and purposes, most of the the time i prefer guitars and basses that just have one pick up, and not 2.

here are a couple great clips of Cat's 67 maple SF1 (neck). turn it up and u can really hear the bass:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLzmqOff-lM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX7VU2MNPhI
(u also will see Norah has a 60's Guild Starfire 3 guitar in one of the videos)

also want to add the original post here may have been a typo and that looks like a 66 bass like Frono said, but there are 90s Starfires as well, some made by DeArmond and a handful also made by Guild. I don't know as much about those but I believe they are all Starfire 2's with humbuckers, and i think they are all maple bodies. the DeArmond has a 32 inch scale. not sure about the 90's Guild scale length or if there were mohogany models. many people have replaced the humbuckers with Dark Star pickups which are similar to the Bisonic. I personally like the humbucker, but it sounds very different from the Bisonic and Dark Star, which I also like.

 

[fronobulax]

Just to clarify...

All visible features make the bass a '65/'66 Starfire I. Black plastic saddles, straight bridge, PU location, thumb and finger rests and their location, PU that looks like the expected Bisonic, period correct TRC. Occam's razor suggests that it is a vintage bass and not a heavily modified 90's reissue, DeArmond or even a heavily modified Starfire II.

While I've heard reports that claim a Starfire bass in any of its variations (and clones thereof) has a 32" scale, in every case where I was able to follow up, it turned out that the person making the claim was using a different measurement. The most reliable way to get scale length is to measure from the nut to the 12th fret and then double the measurement. If, on the other hand, you measure from nut to saddle and pick the E string, you can easily get 32" on a 30 1/2" scale bass.

I think Newark Street being based on a SF I with the sweet spot positioning was a smart marketing move. It allows the price to be lower and it positions the bass where it does not directly compete with most of its vintage brethren.

 

[fronobulax]

Since we are posting Starfire clips, and I am mgod's hosting service I present this from him. It is an MP3 file. In Firefox right click on it to "Save As" or click on it to stream it if your browser knows what to do with an MP3 file.

People are posting Starfire tracks. Here's my favorite of my own from the last decade.

Carry It All from Annie Stela's album Fool circa 2006..

 

[mavuser]

Frono I was agreeing the bass is a 65/66, but just clarifying since the original post said 96 that 90s models do exist as well...the dearmond is widely acknowledged to be a 32" or "medium scale" bass. Whether or not a 32" dearmond and a 30.5" guild are actually the same size I couldn't say. Probably not though. The Newark street is 30.75" and that may be the true length of all of them (or at least the one that was reverse engineered for the Newark street.)

And u make excellent points about the marketing of the new one, I couldn't agree more. I also think the less electronics, controls and switches on the instrument the better. Getting more sweet spots out there to balance out the neck models is a great call. The market will remain strong but stable, people will have more choices. Seems like some of the newer pickups are starting to get out there too so for anyone in the market now there are more options than recently, plus the old stuff.

 

[dapmdave]

Since we are posting Starfire clips, and I am mgod's hosting service I present this from him. It is an MP3 file. In Firefox right click on it to "Save As" or click on it to stream it if your browser knows what to do with an MP3 file.

People are posting Starfire tracks. Here's my favorite of my own from the last decade.

Carry It All from Annie Stela's album Fool circa 2006..

That's a nice track.

Dave

 

[Happy Face]

I don't understand why that is a sweet spot. But since I do not own or use a Starfire of any variety anymore, I'll leave it up to you to judge.

But when playing live, on any bass, it's just nice to have two pups you roll on or roll of a bit between songs if needed. Or not.

 

[EssentialTension]

...the dearmond is widely acknowledged to be a 32" or "medium scale" bass...

My De Armond was 30.5".

 

[fronobulax]

I don't understand why that is a sweet spot. But since I do not own or use a Starfire of any variety anymore, I'll leave it up to you to judge.

But when playing live, on any bass, it's just nice to have two pups you roll on or roll of a bit between songs if needed. Or not.

Long discussion on LTG several years ago when mellowgerman had a sweet spot '66. Some of the key points were: that the sweet spot SF I PU was NOT in the same location as the bridge PU in a SF II; that the SS SF I and bridge SF II did sound different; and for various definitions of "better" the former sounded better. I remember enough about the physics of a vibrating string that this makes sense although not enough to remember why.

As for one vs. two PU, I can live with one since the big tone decision is made when I pick which bass and having done that I don't mess with the tone that much afterwards. The exception is the Pilot where the two PUs are seriously different in tone.

 

[fronobulax]

...the dearmond is widely acknowledged to be a 32" or "medium scale" bass...

My De Armond was 30.5".

First post. Welcome. Since you used past tense does that mean you no longer have it? Are you a proud or a potential Guild owner?

 

[EssentialTension]

...the dearmond is widely acknowledged to be a 32" or "medium scale" bass...

My De Armond was 30.5".

First post. Welcome. Since you used past tense does that mean you no longer have it? Are you a proud or a potential Guild owner?

Hi fronobulax, thanks for the welcome. Do I remember your name from the Dudepit?

I had a De Armond Starfire with two Hammon Dark Stars from 2005 to 2008 and did many many gigs with it in a 60s style band. It worked very well in that context. After that band folded, I sold the De Armond to fund a Lakland Decade with chisonics, which I still have.

I would definitely like to try the new Guild Starfire, but something will have to be sold to make money and space if I'm going to buy one because I have a maximum five bass rule. So, we'll see what happens.