Guild X-500 w/o a serial # stamp...how to date???

[2bornot2bop]

Hi All,

Earlier today I held a Guild X-500 that had no serial number stamp on the rear of the head stock. Retail asking price was $2600...It was a blonde model that appeared in solid shape.

The shop said it was from the mid 80's. It appears to be in great shape. It's also missing the F-hole sticker that's obviously fallen off.

Is the price in the area for a low mint level X-500?

How do I go about dating this guitar?

Many thanks!

2b

 

[FNG]

I'd say post a couple good pics...Hans could probably get you close.

 

[2bornot2bop]

I'd say post a couple good pics...Hans could probably get you close.

I went back for a second peek. The shop now suggested the number on the rear of the pickup is unreadable due to a solder joint. Upon my second visit the shop suggested since the guitar had no date stamp on the headstock it was likely a mid 70's model. If that's accurate the guitar is in superb physical shape for that age.

The blonde X-500 the dealer is selling appears with the exact features of this '86 Sunburst model I've located on the web. As far as I can tell every feature I've seen on the dealers version is featured in the photo of this '86 version, right down to the style of the tailpiece and the wide binding on the sides.

Equipment:

All gold hardware trim
Grover tuners
Guild® HB-1 hb's that are barely showing any tarnish.
spruce top
ebony fingerboard with split block Epiphone style inlays

The dealer seems to think there's no way to date this guitar without desoldering the pickup in an attempt to unveil a parts number on the pickup currently partially covered by solder.

Any ideas how I can date this X-500? Thanks for the assist!

 

[hansmoust]

Any ideas how I can date this X-500?

Just show me a similar set of photos as you've posted of the sunburst one and I might be able to give you a period during which the instrument must have been made.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[Jeff Haddad]

You don't have to de-solder the pickup, check for the date code on any of the pots. You can try using an inspection mirror and you won't have to disassemble anything.

 

[2bornot2bop]

Just show me a similar set of photos as you've posted of the sunburst one and I might be able to give you a period during which the instrument must have been made.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

Hans,

Thank you for the reply and your consideration. I'll take my digital camera to the shop this coming Friday and post some actual pics of the guitar then.

Enjoy,
2b

 

[2bornot2bop]

You don't have to de-solder the pickup, check for the date code on any of the pots. You can try using an inspection mirror and you won't have to disassemble anything.

Thanks for the input. I misspoke. Per the shop owner it's the volume pots that have date codes covered by solder joints. I'll post pictures of the actual guitar in a few days when I return to the shop to take pics.

Enjoy,
2b

 

[2bornot2bop]

Any ideas how I can date this X-500?

Just show me a similar set of photos as you've posted of the sunburst one and I might be able to give you a period during which the instrument must have been made.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

The dealer called me this afternoon stating he located the number "82" on a volume pot. He then said that confirms that the guitar is an '82 model.

Can that be accurate?

What most concerns me is why wouldn't there be a serial number and a "made in the usa" stamped on the rear of the headstock like I've seen on so many guitars on the net dating from the 80's and 90's?

Is there a valid reason why this guitar would NOT possess a serial number stamp on the headstock?

Many thanks!
2b

 

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

2bornot2shop,

Nice to meet you.

Can you tell if the back of the headstock has been repaired or refinished? Looking at it in bright light might reveal something.

Question for all: After 1953, did Guild make any guitars with no label inside plus no serial number on the back of the neck?

Hatted Frau

 

[matsickma]

I have a old Aristocrat that did not have the serial number on the back of the head. It was stamped on the bottom of the guitar above the strap lug and covered by the tailpiece. I'll see if I can get the number. I never searched the year of this Aristocrat but it likly was an early model because the body binding is just plain white. The later Aristocrats that I had seen had white binding with thin black layers.

M

 

[2bornot2bop]

2bornot2shop,

Nice to meet you.

Can you tell if the back of the headstock has been repaired or refinished? Looking at it in bright light might reveal something.

Question for all: After 1953, did Guild make any guitars with no label inside plus no serial number on the back of the neck?

Hatted Frau

Nice to meet you Darryl!

Yes, I've examined the guitar thoroughly and there's no stamped serial number anywhere on the body. The only suggestion there was a serial on the guitar are the remnants of glue remaining where a former sticker was beneath the left f-hole.

Seems very odd not to have a serial number on a guitar of this caliber. As far as I can tell this is the original headstock and it doesn't appear that there was ever any repairs to it.

Thanks to all for the input.

 

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

2b,

According to The Guild Guitar Book by Hans Moust, some Guilds cam without a serial number only until the mid 1950s, so you might have a rare one here. It might also be an employee guitar, which I would suspect would be a particularly well-made guitar.

Hatted Frau

 

[2bornot2bop]

2b,

According to The Guild Guitar Book by Hans Moust, some Guilds cam without a serial number only until the mid 1950s, so you might have a rare one here. It might also be an employee guitar, which I would suspect would be a particularly well-made guitar.

Hatted Frau

Hi Hatted Frau,

Oh really!? I guess what concerns me most is for resale value. If a guitar of this value doesn't possess a serial number it seems naturally a future buyer will want to ding you on whatever your asking price is. Currently the guitar is being offered for $2699 retail.

What would be a fair offering price for an X-155 in very nice shape. Here's pics of the guitar in question that has no stamped serial number.

Thanks to all for the input!

2b

 

[The Guilds of Grot]

for all it's worth I'll throw in my two cents.

The black and white pickguard suggests the 80's to me.

Here's my CE-100 from the same time period.

And of further interest, while mine has a serial number stamped on the back of the headstock, it has the wrong letters for a CE-100.

 

[coreyman97]

Even with serial numbers, the dating can be confusing. I have a beautiful X-500 (actually for sale). When I bought it from the dealer about 10 years ago, he said it was an '86. When I looked up the serial number, it looked like a '90's but the serial numbers for X-500's get funky around then. It had the serial number stamped on the rear of the headstock and on the label (handwritten) in the f-hole - JB100459, which doesn't fit anywhere. I recently decided to write to Guild customer service for verification. They said they'd date it a '93, but it doesn't make sense.

1990 1991 1992 1993 1994
X500 JB100373 JB100389 JB100421 JB100173 AK500008

Trying to date with a serial number can be a challenge, but buying a guitar with none would scare me away.

 

[kakerlak]

^This isn't a factory strap button location. Guild did install strap buttons at the factory, though, so if there isn't a hole in the shoulder (from the factory installation), then I'd say that supports the notion this was an employee's guitar.

Trying to scour the other pics to see if I notice any other deviations from factory spec. It all looks pretty "normal" but I'm not sure the Grover Imperials (or Imperial=knobbed rotomatics) are typical equipment and the master volume knob is in a funny spot. Here's my '94 X-700 for comparison:

And you can see where the "normal" strap button location is in this pic:

BTW, I'd also say '80s-mid '90s as far as date goes.

As for value, employee one-offs are a tough to gauge. The ones that bring more than regular price tend to be guitars that have a lot of tasteful custom touches but with the panache of having come out of the factory that way, like if this guitar had a carved top, or extra fancy inlays, unusual wood, etc. I'd think ones that are pretty much just a serial number-less version of a std. spec. instrument might be worth slightly less, though I agree that they're usually probably built with extra care most of the time.

Even if you were just grabbing one off the line, if you worked in the factory, wouldn't you pick an extra good one?

 

[2bornot2bop]

Trying to date with a serial number can be a challenge, but buying a guitar with none would scare me away.

Thanks for the input. You've expressed my only concern about this guitar for if I ever attempt to sell it I'm faced with attempting to sell a guitar without a serial number stamp or sticker.

In the guitar's defense it has the appearance and condition of having been a one owner and/or a closet guitar.

I've placed an email inquiry into your X-500 Corey.

Thanks to all!

2b

 

[2bornot2bop]

for all it's worth I'll throw in my two cents.

The black and white pickguard suggestes the 80's to me.

Here's my CE-100 from the same time period.

And of further interest, while mine has a serial number stamped on the back of the headstock, it has the wrong letters for a CE-100.

Thanks. The dealer has now dated the guitar via a volume pot part number as an '82 year model.

Beautiful CE-100!

 

[2bornot2bop]

This isn't a factory strap button location. Guild did install strap buttons at the factory, though, so if there isn't a hole in the shoulder (from the factory installation), then I'd say that supports the notion this was an employee's guitar.

Trying to scour the other pics to see if I notice any other deviations from factory spec. It all looks pretty "normal" but I'm not sure the Grover Imperials (or Imperial=knobbed rotomatics) are typical equipment and the master volume knob is in a funny spot. Here's my '94 X-700 for comparison:

BTW, I'd also say '80s-mid '90s as far as date goes.

As for value, employee one-offs are a tough to gauge. The ones that bring more than regular price tend to be guitars that have a lot of tasteful custom touches but with the panache of having come out of the factory that way, like if this guitar had a carved top, or extra fancy inlays, unusual wood, etc. I'd think ones that are pretty much just a serial number-less version of a std. spec. instrument might be worth slightly less, though I agree that they're usually probably built with extra care most of the time.

Even if you were just grabbing one off the line, if you worked in the factory, wouldn't you pick an extra good one?

I neglected to mention the dealer stated the only non factory added item to the guitar was the noted aftermarket strap button install.

This is the second X-500 I've observed with Grover Imperial style tuners.

Dealer stands by his suggestion that the guitar is an '82 model based upon a parts number via a volume pot.

Gorgeous X-700! In reality that's what I'd actually like to own but every one I've seen has sold over $3k. I observed a Guild AA sell for $3.5k on the bay last week that appeared mint! Although the price was right it was still $1k out of my range.

Thanks for the input!

2b

 

[kakerlak]

I think one like this is probably worth a couple hundred less than it would be w/ a S/N. I don't think there's any issue w/ concerns of authenticity; it's clearly a Guild. Probably about the same effect on value that a "2" stamp has on a 70s Gibson. On the plus side, for that small ding in price, you're more likely to have a better than average guitar than a worse than average one, like you might have with a second.

It'd be neat to see if any of the Westerly factory folks could elaborate on the process of back-door guitars, employee one-offs, midnight specials, etc. In particular, I'm curious when the labels get glued in. It seems like it'd be easiest to glue them on before the back/sides/top are glued together, but I'm not sure that's how it was done.

What I'm getting at is whether it would have been possible/likely for an employee to have grabbed a partially-completed guitar from the line that would have been at a stage where there was a label in place, but no S/N stamp. Seems like if Guild had some sort of policy on guitars sold to employees not leaving w/ S/Ns, they might have said "pull the label out before you take that home."