Guitar Center sold me a SF-II without mentioning it's a factory second

[Harp Tail]

Thanks to Norrissey's alert, last week I purchased a Westerly SF-II from GC Ocean NJ.

The guitar was shipped without its OHSC, so last Monday I refused to pick it up. Called up the Ocean store directly from GC Manhattan and they confirmed they had the case and would be shipping it ASAP.

Yesterday I was notified of the case delivery, but just by looking at the carton I knew something was wrong. They shipped a rectangular Fender case (with paperwork and tremolo arm) but apparently the SF Guild case is still with them. Hopefully they'll get it right the third time...

The minute I unwrapped the guitar I noticed the "2" impressed on the back of the headstock. I believe the reason(s) it was stamped a "factory second" are the white dot on the back (under the clear coat) and perhaps even the spot (and slight indentation) on the upper portion of the back of the neck, although that may have happened after the guitar left the hallowed plant.

I'm not biased against "seconds" as one of my coolest LPs happens to be a "SEC" (and also a one-off) and we've gotten along great for the past thirty years.
The GC listing unfortunately is no longer viewable but I'm dead sure there was no mention of the "2" on the back of the headstock.
Your comments are most welcome.

Other than these discrepancies, the guitar is fabulous and plays great. The extra strap pin on the heel can be easily removed.
My diligent and repeated reading of GAD's article on the different Guild HBs leads me to believe this Starfire sports SD-1s, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
I will have my tech pull them up as soon as I get a chance to show him my latest whim.

 

[GAD]

I guess it would depend on what I paid if I’d be annoyed.

 

[Harp Tail]

I guess it would depend on what I paid if I’d be annoyed.

Exactly.

With the current GC promotion on used gear I payed a very fair price, but who wouldn't like shaving another couple hundreds off because of the undisclosed "lesser" stamping? Gibson's "SEC"s supposedly would sell for 30/40% less than list price..

Don't you all agree that this - while entirely spectacular - is indeed a factory second? SD-1s as I believe?

 

[hansmoust]

Don't you all agree that this - while entirely spectacular - is indeed a factory second? SD-1s as I believe?

It would be an unusual way of marking an instrument as a 'second' during that particular period. Also we're looking at a 25 year old guitar and it is impossible to determine what markings were already on the guitar when it left the factory.
Now if you were buying a new guitar ............

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[Harp Tail]

I was hoping you would step in, Hans - thank you.

Does the fact that the label says Starfire 2 instead of II have anything to do with the stamp on the head?

 

[hansmoust]

Does the fact that the label says Starfire 2 instead of II have anything to do with the stamp on the head?

No, the use of the number 2 instead of the Roman II was pretty much standard around that time.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[Harp Tail]

Have you ever seen (or heard of) other same era Starfire II (2?) that have that very digit impressed into the wood on the back of the headstock below made in USA?

Thanks again, Hans.

 

[Prince of Darkness]

Based on the serial number, this guitar was made in 1997 (or possibly 98 or 99, the chart is supposed to be 97-99, but only lists 97), so that would suggest SD-1s. Definitely too late to be Guild HB-1s and probably too early to be Fender HB-1s

 

[Harp Tail]

Thank you. I own a Corona III with Fender HBs and the ones on this II are a world apart (besides being larger).

 

[GGJaguar]

At least GC has a generous return policy if you decide it's not the one for you.

 

[Harp Tail]

This guitar is extraordinary, Oddly enough. it wasn't marked as vintage, so I have forty-five days to possibly find an even more extraordinary one rather than seventy-two hours,

 

[rbrcbr]

Eh it's kind of a given at this point that GC isn't going to specify anything of the sort the majority of the time, whether it is a factory second or not.

All of that said, if you like it, keep it. If you don't, take it back.

 

[LesB3]

GC routinely fails to disclose key facts about the used gear they sell, I chalk it up to incompetence (not malice). But I'm fairly certain that they'll probably tell you to just return it if you aren't happy. If you like the guitar otherwise, and paid a fair price for it, no harm no foul?

 

[GAD]

Exactly.

With the current GC promotion on used gear I payed a very fair price, but who wouldn't like shaving another couple hundreds off because of the undisclosed "lesser" stamping? Gibson's "SEC"s supposedly would sell for 30/40% less than list price..

Don't you all agree that this - while entirely spectacular - is indeed a factory second? SD-1s as I believe?

No doubt. I don’t think GC will shave money off (but I’ve also never been in that position) but I think they’d rather issue a refund and sell it to someone else who doesn’t know or care. Looks like SD1s to me.

 

[GAD]

I have a couple of Guilds with big 2s on them. I’ve always assumed they were seconds but never really found a flaw.

 

[DrumBob]

GC routinely fails to disclose key facts about the used gear they sell, I chalk it up to incompetence (not malice). But I'm fairly certain that they'll probably tell you to just return it if you aren't happy. If you like the guitar otherwise, and paid a fair price for it, no harm no foul?

Believe me, it's mostly incompetence and lack of knowledge, mixed with lack of caring on their part. Many GC sales kids simply don't know and don't care.

 

[davismanLV]

I know some folks disagree with me here, but when a guitar is, say over 25 years old, being a second loses it's impact on value, at least to me. You say you like it and enjoy it, so.... I'd just like it and enjoy it. If you paid a fair price, I don't see how having left the factory ages ago as a second affects the value. Just my opinion, though.

 

[twocorgis]

No, the use of the number 2 instead of the Roman II was pretty much standard around that time.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

Mine, which serial number-wise is not far away from yours, is also like that, though I'm missing the "mah". Mine is a mahogany body as well.

 

[Minnesota Flats]

The GC listing unfortunately is no longer viewable but I'm dead sure there was no mention of the "2" on the back of the headstock.
Your comments are most welcome.

Any time I buy something on line, I immediately screenshot the listing, all PICs, my digital receipt, private messaging, etc....anything that pertains to/documents the transaction. I also save any e-mails that pertain. That may help tilt any subsequent, otherwise-"he said/she said" type arguments about misrepresentation by the seller in my favor (hopefully). I suppose shooting a time-stamped video of "unboxing" the item upon receipt would help to document that any damage claimed by you was not also done by you would also be smart, but I haven't gone that far as yet.

Even after the transaction is concluded to my satisfaction, I store the documentation in a digital folder so that I can show that I didn't steal the item myself or knowingly receive stolen property. Stolen stuff does "sometimes" get fenced online, after all.

 

[Minnesota Flats]

All of that said, if you like it, keep it. If you don't, take it back.

^This.

Years ago, I bought a brand-new, Custom Shop ES-335 "second". The fact that it was a second was disclosed up front by the shop that was selling it, it was stamped "sec" on the back of the headstock and it was significantly discounted. That said, I've had it for over 30 years and have never been able to figure out what's supposedly "wrong" with it.

Years later, when I saw this video...



...it made me glad that ^this^ policy wasn't in place when my guitar was deemed "inadequate" at the factory.


The 335 in question (Harmonic Design Z90 pickups swapped in):