Has anyone ever reshaped the headstock of a Guild?

[jmac]

Who knows, maybe if you modify your guitar it will be really cool. The problem is there's no going back. I took the pick guard off my guitar, that's about the extent of my modifying experience, so I can't offer any practical advice, but if you're confident about it, then go for it.

Worst case scenerio, you're guitar looks horrible.

 

[kostask]

kydave:

Why don't you shave off the curved sides of the Guild's headstock, cut the top off straight, then remove the pearl inlay and take the black background down to bare wood, apply a Martin label, and refinish the headstock? That would suit your aesthetic sensibilities wouldn't it? I mean, what you are essentially doing is trying to make the Guild headstock into a Martin one in the first place, right?

If the Guild headstock is not to your liking, then sell the Guild to somebody who can appreciate it. If you want a guitar with a Martin headstock, then buy a Martin, and don't hack up perfectly good Guilds to suit your sense of aesthetics as seen through Martin colored glasses. Guilds are NOT Martins, they have their own look, and their own sound, and they are built according to Guild's designs. If that look, sound, or design is not to your liking, then get something that is, and leave the Guilds for people who can appreciate them. It would make better financial sense, and prevent the alteration of a perfectly good Guild.

You are proposing the same as somebody who would come into the Martin web site and ask if anybody has reshaped a Martin headstock to look like the open book Gibson style headstock. It wouldn't sit well with the Martin faithful, and your proposal to modify a Guild headstock does not sit well with the folks around here.

Kostas

 

[taabru45]

Reminds me of an old All in the family, episode. Where the son, meathead, comes home to find his wife a brunette, he is totally overwhelmed with lust, and wants her in the bedroom.....now..but she is too pissed off at him......and he is trying to tell her, its ok, we are married....(times change don't they?)..... finally she takes off the wig and throws it at him saying, here, make love to this.....all you are trying to do is to have an affair with another woman, without cheating on your wife. :lol: :lol: :lol: Steffan

 

[kydave]

OK... So I'll take that as a "No" to my original question of "Has anyone ever reshaped the headstock of a Guild?"

 

[capnjuan]

OK... So I'll take that as a "No" to my original question of "Has anyone ever reshaped the headstock of a Guild?"

Hi Dave; you might ask yourself what kind of reception your question might have gotten on the UMGF about disfiguring a Martin. If you don't like your Guild guitar the way it is, you might want to consider thinking about selling it and buying something more to your liking; say ... for example, a Martin. BTW: I thought you were going to post 'Look Through Any Window" for us? J

 

[kydave]

People do alter their Martins, myself included. Soundhole enlargement is one of the more common visible things. You'll notice the fretboard inlay is not stock either. (thanks for the reminder re: Look Through Any Window!)

Before and after for my 38 year old D-28, which I'd chewed up a lot in those 38 years...

 

[capnjuan]

It's just not a common practice here .... or at least not one that Guild owners willingly 'fess up to. Will be watching for 'Look Through ...'. Best, John

 

[kostask]

People do alter their Martins, myself included. Soundhole enlargement is one of the more common visible things. You'll notice the fretboard inlay is not stock either. (thanks for the reminder re: Look Through Any Window!)

Before and after for my 38 year old D-28, which I'd chewed up a lot in those 38 years...

Kydave:

You have probably severely devalued the guitar with the "Tony Rice" modification. If you wanted to look after the guitar after 38 years, you could have just had the top refinished, which would have degraded the value less, much less. And despite your alterations to your guitar, I would be willing to bet that even in the Martin world, not everybody is in agreement with your actions. While the sound hole enlargement may be one of the more common visible alterations, I think that in general, alterations are NOT at all common in acoustic guitars. much less Martins. I get the feeling that more people are interested in restoration to factory specification than in alterations.

All that being said, it is your guitar. You have avoided the question, how many Martin's have their headstock altered to look like something else (say a Gibson)?

 

[kydave]

how many Martin's have their headstock altered to look like something else (say a Gibson)?

None that I know of, but then Martin has the best headstock, so why would they?

(there, happy now?)

As to devaluing the guitar, I bought that guitar new 38 years ago for keeps. Reselling it has never been, nor ever will be a consideration.

 

[cuthbert]

how many Martin's have their headstock altered to look like something else (say a Gibson)?

None that I know of, but then Martin has the best headstock, so why would they?

Coff coff!

Anyway, I agree that the "factory specs" may be overrated, and I'm not against some modification s like swapping tuners, or maybe adding something more elaborated like custom inlays and so one, but for the headstock...there's no reason to transform a Guild into a Martin and vce versa.

For the record, I'm planning a tuners swap on my CV-2C and maybe if it's not too expensive a set of more guildish inlays liek blocks.

Of course, being my guitar a USED one, the reselling value is not a problem. :wink:

 

[kostask]

....
None that I know of, but then Martin has the best headstock, so why would they?

(there, happy now?)

.....

We get to the crux of the matter. Please describe exactly what it is about the Martin headstock that is so good that you would want to modify a Guild headstock to make it look the same. Is it the very detailed shape? No, can't be that, it has no shape, its a straight line. Is it the creativity shown by this headshape? No, I can't really see a lot of creativity in a straight line. Is it the uniqueness? No, loads of other guitars have copied the shape, and Martin has never sued anybody over it (how can you go into court and say a straight line is a trademark/patented/copyrighted?). Is there anything about the Martin headstock that is better than a Guild, Gibson, Taylor, or any other headstock? I can't see it. It is a straight saw cut with a table saw. Nothing more, nothing less. At least any other "name" vendor has attempted to create something unique and identifiable for their guitars.

I know, sometimes less is more. Guess what, sometimes less IS less, too.

Kostas

 

[danerectal]

Here's my two cents, sans-animosity :roll: .

It's always been my understanding that the shape and therefore mass of a headstock can make a contribution to the tone and sustain of a guitar. If you like the tone of your guitar, I would advise against altering the headstock. I have seen an altered Guild headstock or two in auctions. Some were more drastic. One in particular had been sawn off straight across at one point. Then later on, the shape was restored, however totally disfigured. I personally couldn't care less what happens to an inanimate object that will forever belong to someone else. I'd rather not see it smashed, but if you'd get more miles out of the guitar by changing it, maybe that's the right move for you. If you're concerned about tone, try to determine what parts of the guitar made it desirable in that respect before making any changes. If the headstock is responsible for the sustain I've heard it renders, it would be ill-advised to change it. If that's just a myth, you need to make the guitar one you can't put down. Cosmetically, the peaked Guild headstock is one of my favorite features since it carries the theme of the brand mark. That said, I could never change such an (structurally, cosmetically, and functionally) integral part of a guitar.

 

[kydave]

To avoid further crucifixion, I'm re-thinking and want to clarify.

Clarification - The idea is not to get the headstock to look like a Martin. The straightening of the sides was to correct what I consider a minor design defect in too extreme of curve which brings the edge of the headstock too close to the D & G string tuners, the E string tuners to a lesser degree. Gibson curves their headstock, just not with such an extreme flare.

So straightening is extreme, and now I'm thinking of modifying the curve to correct what I see as an issue, but still keep the overall look. Much harder to photoshop so I'm working with a printout and scissors.

The tuner switchout is a non-issue. Lots of people replace Rotomatics on lots of guitars.

As to just dumping the guitar for a Martin, I got this guitar because it sounds very good. Otherwise I wouldn't even be thinking about any of this.

Sorry to raise hackles. I seriously figured that someone here had done something along these lands.

Thanks for those who at least understood, in varying degrees, my thoughts.

 

[chazmo]

Dave, you're not raising my hackles. No crucifixion from me. Frankly, I'm not sure why folks are so defensive about your suggestion. I say do what you want with it. It's your baby, and it's a player. Aren't those Tacoma D-50s nice sounding axes?! I've really enjoyed trying them in the store. Anyway, If you're inclined to do this kind of mod, have at it (IMO). If I could help you, I would.

Same with the Martin D-28. If that were some pre-war model, for example, I might've tried to discourage you from customizing it, but it isn't. And, if customizing it has endeared it to you, so be it.

I've seen this kind of reaction on my Ibanez forum when someone scallops the fretboard on some '70s leccie. Those are getting into collectable status these days, so of course collectors react that way. In this case, I'm not clear on what the big deal is.

And, by the way, I agree that Martin headstocks are the classiest. I've gotten used to my Guilds, but I would've gone in some different directions than Al Dronge and crew back in the day.

 

[cuthbert]

To avoid further crucifixion, I'm re-thinking and want to clarify.

Clarification - The idea is not to get the headstock to look like a Martin. The straightening of the sides was to correct what I consider a minor design defect in too extreme of curve which brings the edge of the headstock too close to the D & G string tuners, the E string tuners to a lesser degree. Gibson curves their headstock, just not with such an extreme flare.

Sorry to raise hackles. I seriously figured that someone here had done something along these lands.
So straightening is extreme, and now I'm thinking of modifying the curve to correct what I see as an issue, but still keep the overall look. Much harder to photoshop so I'm working with a printout and scissors.

The tuner switchout is a non-issue. Lots of people replace Rotomatics on lots of guitars.

As to just dumping the guitar for a Martin, I got this guitar because it sounds very good. Otherwise I wouldn't even be thinking about any of this.

Sorry to raise hackles. I seriously figured that someone here had done something along these lands.

Thanks for those who at least understood, in varying degrees, my thoughts.

Seriously, at the beginning my understanding that your modifications were focused to chop some weight from the headstock, now it seems that the problem is that the curve is too pronounced and interferes witht he tuners, in this case I would suggest to use tuners with a longer shaft, like the Super Rotomatics, if this is really the problem, the button is much more far away from the headstock.

 

[cuthbert]

Dave, you're not raising my hackles. No crucifixion from me. Frankly, I'm not sure why folks are so defensive about your suggestion. I say do what you want with it. It's your baby, and it's a player. Aren't those Tacoma D-50s nice sounding axes?! I've really enjoyed trying them in the store. Anyway, If you're inclined to do this kind of mod, have at it (IMO). If I could help you, I would.

I think that the main problem most of the people here have is that the shape of the headstock, since the beginning of luthery, was always considered the "signature" of the manufacturer. In earlier times, luthiers like Stradivari and the Guarneris had a distinct way to carve the scrolls of theri bowed instruments, in short the head has always been representative of Guild, and the idea of somebody cutting it off bothers a lot of fans...

 

[kydave]

Cuthbert,
After even more detailed research, I've got numbers. Swapping out the Rotomatics for Sta-Tite open backs alone will take approximately 6 oz. off the headstock. (using weights from Bryan Kimsey's website - thanks Bryan)

I bet a modified curve wouldn't even be noticed by most people including Guild fans. Say taking the curve down to that of a Gibson.

NOTE: Not being a Gibson fan, I didn't realize how much their headstocks vary until I went looking for examples! WOW! They go from totally straight sides to the one pictured, to sides and top flare to equal that of Guild. Not wedded to anything there at Gibson, I guess...

Dave

 

[chazmo]

Dave, you're not raising my hackles. No crucifixion from me. Frankly, I'm not sure why folks are so defensive about your suggestion. I say do what you want with it. It's your baby, and it's a player. Aren't those Tacoma D-50s nice sounding axes?! I've really enjoyed trying them in the store. Anyway, If you're inclined to do this kind of mod, have at it (IMO). If I could help you, I would.

I think that the main problem most of the people here have is that the shape of the headstock, since the beginning of luthery, was always considered the "signature" of the manufacturer. In earlier times, luthiers like Stradivari and the Guarneris had a distinct way to carve the scrolls of theri bowed instruments, in short the head has always been representative of Guild, and the idea of somebody cutting it off bothers a lot of fans...

Very interesting explanation, and well-said. Fair enough; I appreciate this illumination. I hadn't even considered that before.

The crown shape itself... yeah, I see what you're saying about brand identity there. They are pretty bulky though, and from a purely functional point of view I think Dave is right about shaving off some weight. It might only be a couple of ounces though and not worth doing.

In any case, let me freely admit to you that my love for my Guilds is actually in spite of their headstocks, cuthbert. When I first saw my F-512 hanging on the store wall several years ago, I thought it looked rather comical. I'm a "wood guy" (if you will). My kids loved that shiny, black faceplate, but it sure wasn't my taste.

Then, of course, I played the thing and I had a jaw-dropping moment.

 

[Graham]

I like the Guild headstock. Along with their pickguard it sets them apart!

 

[cuthbert]

Cuthbert,
After even more detailed research, I've got numbers. Swapping out the Rotomatics for Sta-Tite open backs alone will take approximately 6 oz. off the headstock. (using weights from Bryan Kimsey's website - thanks Bryan)

I bet a modified curve wouldn't even be noticed by most people including Guild fans. Say taking the curve down to that of a Gibson.

NOTE: Not being a Gibson fan, I didn't realize how much their headstocks vary until I went looking for examples! WOW! They go from totally straight sides to the one pictured, to sides and top flare to equal that of Guild. Not wedded to anything there at Gibson, I guess...

Dave

Dave, if you really want to go to these tuners with a technolgoy of the 30s, at least take the Sta-tite 18:1 ratio, as I previously said, I'm gonna swap my Gotoh 700s from my CV-2C and place a nice set of Imperials, which weight even more than the roto, but they look cool and work well.

For the Gibsons, have a look at the headstock of the Les Paul Custom, for instance, I think that their "flower" is as large as the Guild one...evidently Gibson was an example for later archtop builders like Epiphone and Guild, who were their competitors in the jazz market but they didn't want to copy Gibson's moustache design...

Their style is much more "american", at least this is our perception in Europe, than Martin, who was an austrian luthier and therefore had a different school, more "german" looking, as a matter of fact Martin's headstock is pretty simplistic and just focused on keeping the tuners at their place, nothing more.

And nothing less, of course.