Height of bridges on certain models

[sixstringjazz]

I had a Starfire III with a Bigsby and the metal bridge. The metal bridge was adjusted all the way down and the action was still pretty high. I don't really like low action but it really needed to be lower to be comfortable for me. Also I had an x170 Manhattan and the action was just barely low enough when the bridge was adjusted all the way down. Is this typical for most Guild hollowbodies? Seems to me there might be a neck angle issue where the angle needs to be a little more so that adjusting the bridge all the way down will actually put the strings on the frets. I have not seen this problem with some other brands. I have seen the opposite problem on some Gibsons where the top starts to cave and the bridge won't go high enough.

 

[Default]

If it was one of the sixties models, it might have been neck reset time. I understand that the neckset might have been shallow from the get-go, but I'll bet that was not an as-shipped condition.

 

[WahmBoomAh]

Hi all ... I just joined and was especially motived to do so because I have the same quandry .
First off ... no bashing .
I have a Guild because I`m a fan and have played some beauties over the years .
I`m really impressed by the sound of this Starfire III I picked up (S/N) AG302506
but sadly .. the original post could have been written by me as well .
This is a newer model . As a matter of fact ..i bought it off of ebay from a store and i`d say it looks
unsold (NOS condition)..I wonder if it didn`t sell from the store because of the neck angle issue .
Without mincing words .. the guitar plain looks like it was built wrong .
I`ve sussed out 2 possible cures ...
1. A Starfire II tailpiece (de-bigsby it) to get the string break back over the bridge.
2. Serious tampering ....install a B7 to get a string break angle .
I`d have to screw into a hollow body top (too risky?)
and with the new opportunity to lower the bridge more comes a new quandry..
I installed an ebony based ABR type bridge to get the base lower than the metal one.
If I put a B7 on .... eventually I`d risk shaving it so much ebony off of the base ...that it might dissapear .
SO ... possible scenario ... gibson type ABR with the posts directly into the top (ala ES 330) and a B7 .
no matter what .. it`s a far cry from a playable guitar as I type .
Anyone been down this road .???
thanks Guildsmen .
Paul

 

[Default]

Can you give us a pic of the bridge from the side? Just so I can get more of a grip. :roll:

The harp would solve the break angle problem. I used to have a harp on my EK SFIII and that did the trick, but I missed the Bigsby. Putting a B7 on would also solve the problem, but those were intended to be screwed into a solid or semi-hollow guitar, not a full hollowbody, so you run into the possibility of "issues", whatever they might be.

The possibility might exist that this particular guitar was stored someplace hot in the past. See the Stew-Mac article here.

Have to check the height of my DeArmond bridge. Replaced the stock bridge with this roller bridge and that might lower the height a little more.

 

[WahmBoomAh]

Can you give us a pic of the bridge from the side? Just so I can get more of a grip. :roll:

The harp would solve the break angle problem. I used to have a harp on my EK SFIII and that did the trick, but I missed the Bigsby. Putting a B7 on would also solve the problem, but those were intended to be screwed into a solid or semi-hollow guitar, not a full hollowbody, so you run into the possibility of "issues", whatever they might be.

The possibility might exist that this particular guitar was stored someplace hot in the past. See the Stew-Mac article here.

Have to check the height of my DeArmond bridge. Replaced the stock bridge with this roller bridge and that might lower the height a little more.

thanks for the reply . And the ideas .
I took pics but I can`t find my cable to upload right now ..Asap I`ll post .
Regarding the StewMac link .. the neck joint shows no visual evidence of shifting .

 

[WahmBoomAh]

Can you give us a pic of the bridge from the side? Just so I can get more of a grip. :roll:

The harp would solve the break angle problem. I used to have a harp on my EK SFIII and that did the trick, but I missed the Bigsby. Putting a B7 on would also solve the problem, but those were intended to be screwed into a solid or semi-hollow guitar, not a full hollowbody, so you run into the possibility of "issues", whatever they might be.

The possibility might exist that this particular guitar was stored someplace hot in the past. See the Stew-Mac article here.

Have to check the height of my DeArmond bridge. Replaced the stock bridge with this roller bridge and that might lower the height a little more.

 

[rhcole]

I replaced my original bridge on my X-170 with a metal tuneamatic type and a rosewood base. It required considerable filing and sanding to get the base low enough for decent action. So, Guild's bridges and/or neck angles are different than other brands.

 

[WahmBoomAh]

I replaced my original bridge on my X-170 with a metal tuneamatic type and a rosewood base. It required considerable filing and sanding to get the base low enough for decent action. So, Guild's bridges and/or neck angles are different than other brands.

yup ...that`s what the above pic shows ... I also filed the ebony base ... but any lower and there's no angle to and/or tension to keep the strings in the saddle ...resulting in banjo tone .

 

[Default]

Wow, talk about me missing the point. ;-(

The issue isn't really the bridge as a fix. The issue is the height of the string coming off the Bigsby.

So, yeah, it's either a B7, a harp or a reset. A harp would be the easiest and cheapest. A B7 would let you get your wiggle on, but I don't know what the tension bar pulling up on the top would do. A reset would be the most expensive and ultimately, the most productive option, but that's if you want this guitar to be a keeper.

 

[WahmBoomAh]

Wow, talk about me missing the point. ;-(

The issue isn't really the bridge as a fix. The issue is the height of the string coming off the Bigsby.

So, yeah, it's either a B7, a harp or a reset. A harp would be the easiest and cheapest. A B7 would let you get your wiggle on, but I don't know what the tension bar pulling up on the top would do. A reset would be the most expensive and ultimately, the most productive option, but that's if you want this guitar to be a keeper.

Correct .. you`ve just verified my thoughts ..thanks for the perspective .
I guess the main reason I derailed the OP here (really a continuation of his concern) was to ask around if ...
Are all Starfires from this period built like this ?
Could other owners chime in with opinions ..
I`d consider going after a replacement if mine`s an abberation .
Gotta add that the grovers are pretty useless ...i`d have to replace the gears too .
Anyone know what year mine is ?
Westerly build (S/N) AG302506

 

[Default]

Pm Hans Moust, he literally wrote the book on Guilds.

 

[Walter Broes]

I've seen SF III's from "all" eras that had a neck set that was too low for a B6 Bigsby - other Guild guitar models too.

 

[sixstringjazz]

Wow, talk about me missing the point. ;-(

The issue isn't really the bridge as a fix. The issue is the height of the string coming off the Bigsby.

So, yeah, it's either a B7, a harp or a reset. A harp would be the easiest and cheapest. A B7 would let you get your wiggle on, but I don't know what the tension bar pulling up on the top would do. A reset would be the most expensive and ultimately, the most productive option, but that's if you want this guitar to be a keeper.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even if you put the B7 on it and improve the break angle, you still have not lowered the action unless you file the base of the bridge down from stock? And since the guitar comes with the metal bridge, that means that you have to get an aftermarket wood bridge that you can file like the other poster above. My Starfire III was recent and had no time related neck set issues. It came that way from the factory. It almost seems as if they didn't have actual players that checked them to see if they could be set up correctly.

BTW, does anyone know if Bluesbirds have a similar problem? I was thinking of getting one, but I don't want to go down this road with it.

 

[WahmBoomAh]

Wow, talk about me missing the point. ;-(

The issue isn't really the bridge as a fix. The issue is the height of the string coming off the Bigsby.

So, yeah, it's either a B7, a harp or a reset. A harp would be the easiest and cheapest. A B7 would let you get your wiggle on, but I don't know what the tension bar pulling up on the top would do. A reset would be the most expensive and ultimately, the most productive option, but that's if you want this guitar to be a keeper.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even if you put the B7 on it and improve the break angle, you still have not lowered the action unless you file the base of the bridge down from stock? And since the guitar comes with the metal bridge, that means that you have to get an aftermarket wood bridge that you can file like the other poster above. My Starfire III was recent and had no time related neck set issues. It came that way from the factory. It almost seems as if they didn't have actual players that checked them to see if they could be set up correctly.

BTW, does anyone know if Bluesbirds have a similar problem? I was thinking of getting one, but I don't want to go down this road with it.

Hi OP !
yes ... a B7 would have to be accompanied by a wood base for modding . In my case I already have the wood base .
With a B7 I`d be able to come down more and I`m sure I`d get a lot more volume and body to the sound with a normal string break too .
The only question is if the top screws would hold in the laminate , The top seems pretty thick and I`ve seen 330`s with B7`s .. I assume it`d work...but until someone tries .. all bets are off.
The option of a harp tailpiece lead me to dead ends ...Anyone know where to buy one without paying vintage money?

 

[sixstringjazz]

Wow, talk about me missing the point. ;-(

The issue isn't really the bridge as a fix. The issue is the height of the string coming off the Bigsby.

So, yeah, it's either a B7, a harp or a reset. A harp would be the easiest and cheapest. A B7 would let you get your wiggle on, but I don't know what the tension bar pulling up on the top would do. A reset would be the most expensive and ultimately, the most productive option, but that's if you want this guitar to be a keeper.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even if you put the B7 on it and improve the break angle, you still have not lowered the action unless you file the base of the bridge down from stock? And since the guitar comes with the metal bridge, that means that you have to get an aftermarket wood bridge that you can file like the other poster above. My Starfire III was recent and had no time related neck set issues. It came that way from the factory. It almost seems as if they didn't have actual players that checked them to see if they could be set up correctly.

BTW, does anyone know if Bluesbirds have a similar problem? I was thinking of getting one, but I don't want to go down this road with it.

Hi OP !
yes ... a B7 would have to be accompanied by a wood base for modding . In my case I already have the wood base .
With a B7 I`d be able to come down more and I`m sure I`d get a lot more volume and body to the sound with a normal string break too .
The only question is if the top screws would hold in the laminate , The top seems pretty thick and I`ve seen 330`s with B7`s .. I assume it`d work...but until someone tries .. all bets are off.
The option of a harp tailpiece lead me to dead ends ...Anyone know where to buy one without paying vintage money?

You could glue a small strip of plywood, maple or other hardwood under the top where the screws would go on the B7. I would think if you are going to mod it to the degree of putting the B7 on, then gluing a small strip of reinforcement under the top would not be a big deal. Most any repair man or luthier of note should be able to do this. They have the right clamps, cauls, etc... and it really shouldn't be too expensive. Of course this would make the guitar a "keeper" for you, since most people would not want a modded guitar, or at least it would lower the value if you decided to resell it. Ironic though, since it would be a better player and more functional. the harp would improve the angle, but it still wouldn't get the tension and "pop" that the B7 would get.

 

[hansmoust]

Anyone know what year mine is ?
Westerly build (S/N) AG302506

Hello Paul,

Welcome! Your Starfire III is from the year 2001.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[WahmBoomAh]

Anyone know what year mine is ?
Westerly build (S/N) AG302506

Hello Paul,

Welcome! Your Starfire III is from the year 2001.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

thank you sir !
last of the westerlys?
paul

 

[hansmoust]

last of the westerlys? paul

Yes! Not exactly the last one but one of the approx. 100 Starfire IIs and IIIs they did during that last year in Westerly.

Can you tell me what's the complete model designation that's written on the label of your Starfire III?

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[Default]

B-3 Bigsby for a nice price. Worth trying as it's 2" shorter than the B-6 Guildsby and that would Change the break angle. Another thing that you might try, is buying a new bridge and grinding the bottom of the bridge itself down.

 

[WahmBoomAh]

last of the westerlys? paul

Yes! Not exactly the last one but one of the approx. 100 Starfire IIs and IIIs they did during that last year in Westerly.

Can you tell me what's the complete model designation that's written on the label of your Starfire III?

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

Thanks for the interest Hans ,
It just says Starfire III
S/N AG 302506
and the label reads
Guild Music Westerly,RI