Holy grail.

[West R Lee]

Yes, the headstock you refer to (I think) is on the Collings guitar that I like, called the "CJ" Collings Jumbo, it's modeled after the Gibson J45. It's a short scale slope shouldered dread (apparently jumbo doesn't have the same meaning with Collings it does with Guild). Let me see if I can find a picture.

Here's a Collings CJ....a bit overpriced, but you get the idea....and the headstock.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Collings-CJ-MH- ... 5ae3c6a4db

West

Gee Jim, I think as a guitar-playing Texan, owning a Collings is almost obligatory isn't it? :lol:

I played an awesome used CJ at Mandolin Brothers when we were there during Krysh's visit. It was really a lot better than the D2H that I owned for awhile, which itself was no improvement over my D50. I almost bit at $1800, which was a very fair price I thought. I have a wonderful sitka/mahogany Bourgeois Slope D that has that same kind of "snake" headstock, and the only way I could improve that guitar was if it were short scale. Dana makes them that way, and hopefully one day I'll be able to wrangle an even swap for one. I think that Guild should really sell a slope shoulder, and more than one of us raised that at LMG. They seemed pretty receptive to the idea, too. I think that part of Guild's new image as a boutique guitar manufacturer should include some of these niche models.

A Collings CJ for $1800 and you didn't buy it Sandy? Was it in good shape? Man, you could have sent me another one!

West :wink:

 

[twocorgis]

Gee Jim, I think as a guitar-playing Texan, owning a Collings is almost obligatory isn't it? :lol:

I played an awesome used CJ at Mandolin Brothers when we were there during Krysh's visit. It was really a lot better than the D2H that I owned for awhile, which itself was no improvement over my D50. I almost bit at $1800, which was a very fair price I thought. I have a wonderful sitka/mahogany Bourgeois Slope D that has that same kind of "snake" headstock, and the only way I could improve that guitar was if it were short scale. Dana makes them that way, and hopefully one day I'll be able to wrangle an even swap for one. I think that Guild should really sell a slope shoulder, and more than one of us raised that at LMG. They seemed pretty receptive to the idea, too. I think that part of Guild's new image as a boutique guitar manufacturer should include some of these niche models.

A Collings CJ for $1800 and you didn't buy it Sandy? Was it in good shape? Man, you could have sent me another one!

West :wink:

Oops, I think it was a C10, and it was $2800!

Man, gettin' old ain't for sissies! :lol: I DO remember correctly that it was a really nice guitar, though. :roll:

 

[idealassets]

Here's a Collings CJ....a bit overpriced, but you get the idea....and the headstock

West,
Yes, thats the model. I believe it is actually patterned after the Gibson "Southern Jumbo", or Advanced Jumbo, a liitle larger than the J45.

But the guitar that I played didn't have any orange in the burst. It was all tea and tobacco colored. It was tagged around $4600 but I could have had it for around $4075 new out of the box 1.5 weeks ago. I have not Collings for sale at Elderly in Michigan, or at Sweetwater in Indiana.

The Collings was a nice guitar. But for me, I have worked my playing style into the the Guild D55 of F412/ F512 sound. Thats what I like the best. The Collings would make me produce a different type of sound, perhaps more country blues or bluegrass.

Craig

 

[idealassets]

I think that Guild should really sell a slope shoulder

Can you please explain what a slpoe shoulder is? And what guitar manufacturers make it.

Craig

 

[twocorgis]

I think that Guild should really sell a slope shoulder

Can you please explain what a slpoe shoulder is? And what guitar manufacturers make it.

Craig

Easy Craig!

A slope shoulder has a softer curve on the upper bout, like a Gibson J45 (the original AFAIK), or my Bourgeois Slope D

My D50 is your traditional "square shoulder" dread, which was a Martin invention

 

[Scratch]

[quote="West R Lee":36vquch2]I think now if I could find a nice Martin, Gibson or Collings, I'd buy one of those just to have something different.

West

BLASPHEMER!!!!

Something different like heck, I don't know......short scale, Adirondack top, wider nut. Heck I've got 3 rsoewood dreads Ridge and have owned about 6 of them, and though dreads are my preferred body style......something just a tad different would be nice. It would be a dread, and it would have to be something very, very special, something that knocked my socks off. I've played a rosewood 1 J45 that did that, and 1 Custom D28.....but so far, that's about it.

Still haven't played a Collings that I liked any better than my DV's, but I'm not through looking yet. :wink: And I wouldn't say I liked these particular Martin and Gibson guitars better, they were just different....in a good way. If I recall, I think the J45 was a short scale, and the Martin had forward bracing and an Adirondack top.

Guild doesn't offer anything like this in a dread to my knowledge, oh maybe an adi top, but I've not seen a short scale or wide nut dread in the Guild portfolio. And I will openly admit that I feel no loyalty to New Hartford.

West[/quote:36vquch2]

Jim,
You really need to play the J-45 before you spend more on a Collings. Don't get me wrog; I love Collings Guitars; they're crafted right up the road and beautiful instruments in every regard. But before you spend that kinda money, you owe it to yourself to play a slope shoulder, short scale Gibby J-45.

 

[West R Lee]

Oh you know me Ken, I'll research a model for about 5 years before buying. I've played several J45's Ken, and a couple that blew me away. I'm looking forward to playing yours. No, it will have to be one that just blows me away, regardless of the brand, much like the Martin did last April.

I do like the feel and the different tone some of the slope shouldered guitars offer. A short scale version like the CJ or the J45 would certainly fit the bill if it overwhelmed me.

West

 

[taabru45]

Sounding like Guild should bring back the Josh White model....it had a wider nut, and I think it was a short scale..with 12th fret at the body....you think Josh was on to something? Steffan

 

[twocorgis]

Oh you know me Ken, I'll research a model for about 5 years before buying. I've played several J45's Ken, and a couple that blew me away. I'm looking forward to playing yours. No, it will have to be one that just blows me away, regardless of the brand, much like the Martin did last April.

I do like the feel and the different tone some of the slope shouldered guitars offer. A short scale version like the CJ or the J45 would certainly fit the bill if it overwhelmed me.

West

Don't rule out a Bourgeois either, Jim. They're remarkably consistent (much like Guild), and I've yet to find a J45 that's as good, though I've played one that I liked. They do come in short scale too, and can usually be had used for less than a Collings; both of mine were under $2K. For some reason, Dana's guitars don't seem to have the cachet that Collings has, despite the fact that I've yet to play a Collings (or a Gibson for that matter) that I like as much as either of mine.

 

[West R Lee]

Oh you know me Ken, I'll research a model for about 5 years before buying. I've played several J45's Ken, and a couple that blew me away. I'm looking forward to playing yours. No, it will have to be one that just blows me away, regardless of the brand, much like the Martin did last April.

I do like the feel and the different tone some of the slope shouldered guitars offer. A short scale version like the CJ or the J45 would certainly fit the bill if it overwhelmed me.

West

Don't rule out a Bourgeois either, Jim. They're remarkably consistent (much like Guild), and I've yet to find a J45 that's as good, though I've played one that I liked. They do come in short scale too, and can usually be had used for less than a Collings; both of mine were under $2K. For some reason, Dana's guitars don't seem to have the cachet that Collings has, despite the fact that I've yet to play a Collings (or a Gibson for that matter) that I like as much as either of mine.

And that consistency is the deal Sandy. You know, some Guilds of the same model might sound just a tad different than others, but it seems to me like that consistency is all over the place with the other manufacturers. To date, I've played just a couple of Martins that blew me away, and 2 Gibsons as well, but I've played many of those guitars that didn't. I sat in the hallway at the Arlington Guitar Show in a very quiet spot with the wife of a dealer and my wife as I listened to her try and sell me on a $6000 Collings, played her for about 30 minutes and it sounded good, but I wasn't swept off my feet.....certainly not $6000 of being swept off of my feet.

Like I said, I'll not get hung up on a make or model........I'll just have to be really impressed. I have a pretty good idea what Kenny is talking about with his J45 and feel he has probably experiences what I did one day with a particular rosewood J45.....and it was really, really nice. I've played several Collings and have yet to be REALLY impressed, but I know there certainly be one out there that does. I've played 1 D28 Martin that shocked me with it's tone and volume, and I passed on that one......maybe I shouldn't have. So I will not get hung up on a brand or model, it will just have to be one that speaks to me very strongly.

West

 

[krysh]

to be honest, I don't believe there is ONE holy grail in guitars at all. probably something will be close for a short period. since I am a bass- and guitarplayer, there are different grails for different purposes, but since they are only tools to express your voice, there will always be something new, something different, to give your voice new inspiration, new timbres. but to get back to the topic:

there is a guild for almost everyone that comes close.
I own a at least 6 possible grails. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[idealassets]

Just like guitars, cars cycles, boats, and others are often produced with the aethetic appeal in mind. I would have to admit that when I bought my first guitar (Martin HD28), the advertised "original 1930's appearance" of the herringbone trim is what I wanted.

So I would consider that a "grail" guitar would be one that has some type of combimation of:

1. Sound quality
2. Reputation
3. Aesthetic appeal
4. Popularity
5. Monetary value
6. Rarity (possibly)

Are there maybe any other considerations?

 

[Ridgemont]

And that consistency is the deal Sandy. You know, some Guilds of the same model might sound just a tad different than others, but it seems to me like that consistency is all over the place with the other manufacturers. To date, I've played just a couple of Martins that blew me away, and 2 Gibsons as well, but I've played many of those guitars that didn't. I sat in the hallway at the Arlington Guitar Show in a very quiet spot with the wife of a dealer and my wife as I listened to her try and sell me on a $6000 Collings, played her for about 30 minutes and it sounded good, but I wasn't swept off my feet.....certainly not $6000 of being swept off of my feet.

Like I said, I'll not get hung up on a make or model........I'll just have to be really impressed. I have a pretty good idea what Kenny is talking about with his J45 and feel he has probably experiences what I did one day with a particular rosewood J45.....and it was really, really nice. I've played several Collings and have yet to be REALLY impressed, but I know there certainly be one out there that does. I've played 1 D28 Martin that shocked me with it's tone and volume, and I passed on that one......maybe I shouldn't have. So I will not get hung up on a brand or model, it will just have to be one that speaks to me very strongly.

West

You know some of the best guitars I have played are the ones I own. That is partly due to the fact that I take care of them...and that I have impeccable taste in guitars. :lol: But seriously, I am becoming more and more convinced that consistency has less to do with manufacturer than it does with retail conditions. Several variables such as, humidity, string age, abuse, neglect, and years sitting in the shop will determine how a guitar will sound when you pick it up. I have walked into our local GC to play the same guitar over the last year. It is one specific Eric Clapton 000-28 that has a distinct scratch on the top. Somedays it sounds good and others it sounds bad. It usually sounds good when it has new strings and a cleanup.

 

[West R Lee]

And that consistency is the deal Sandy. You know, some Guilds of the same model might sound just a tad different than others, but it seems to me like that consistency is all over the place with the other manufacturers. To date, I've played just a couple of Martins that blew me away, and 2 Gibsons as well, but I've played many of those guitars that didn't. I sat in the hallway at the Arlington Guitar Show in a very quiet spot with the wife of a dealer and my wife as I listened to her try and sell me on a $6000 Collings, played her for about 30 minutes and it sounded good, but I wasn't swept off my feet.....certainly not $6000 of being swept off of my feet.

Like I said, I'll not get hung up on a make or model........I'll just have to be really impressed. I have a pretty good idea what Kenny is talking about with his J45 and feel he has probably experiences what I did one day with a particular rosewood J45.....and it was really, really nice. I've played several Collings and have yet to be REALLY impressed, but I know there certainly be one out there that does. I've played 1 D28 Martin that shocked me with it's tone and volume, and I passed on that one......maybe I shouldn't have. So I will not get hung up on a brand or model, it will just have to be one that speaks to me very strongly.

West

You know some of the best guitars I have played are the ones I own. That is partly due to the fact that I take care of them...and that I have impeccable taste in guitars. :lol: But seriously, I am becoming more and more convinced that consistency has less to do with manufacturer than it does with retail conditions. Several variables such as, humidity, string age, abuse, neglect, and years sitting in the shop will determine how a guitar will sound when you pick it up. I have walked into our local GC to play the same guitar over the last year. It is one specific Eric Clapton 000-28 that has a distinct scratch on the top. Somedays it sounds good and others it sounds bad. It usually sounds good when it has new strings and a cleanup.

I have noticed that sometimes my guitars sound like duds after I pull a humidifier out of them, and sound much better as they dry out.

West

 

[Walter Broes]

Hmmm...holy grails...

I have some of my Guild holy Grails already I guess...my black Starfire III with the DeArmond pickups would be one, it's what I think is the coolest (and certainly the coolest looking) incarnation of a Starfire.
I've been playing it more lately btw, and it's such a great guitar.

Acoustics...
While we're dreaming out loud, I'd love to have an original F-47 with the cowboy pickguard, and/or an old-style headstock F-40.

 

[chazmo]

Just like guitars, cars cycles, boats, and others are often produced with the aethetic appeal in mind. I would have to admit that when I bought my first guitar (Martin HD28), the advertised "original 1930's appearance" of the herringbone trim is what I wanted.

So I would consider that a "grail" guitar would be one that has some type of combimation of:

1. Sound quality
2. Reputation
3. Aesthetic appeal
4. Popularity
5. Monetary value
6. Rarity (possibly)

Are there maybe any other considerations?

That's a pretty good list of criteria, but I'd have to add sentimental value to that. Sometimes folks spend a lifetime seeking out a guitar that was lost, stolen, or whatever... personal attachment.

Related to that might be provenance. If one of John Denver's F-612s ever turned up, for example... Compared to just a "regular" F-612, that is.

 

[Ridgemont]

I have noticed that sometimes my guitars sound like duds after I pull a humidifier out of them, and sound much better as they dry out.

West

I have heard that it is particularly dramatic in rosewood guitars. Supposedly rosewood likes to be dry, or so they say.

 

[Roger Smith]

The Holy Grail for me is my '67 D40.

 

[adorshki]

Are there maybe any other considerations?

Chick magnet?

 

[rws11]

Are there maybe any other considerations?

Chick magnet?

This what you talking about Al?

http://www.zazzle.com/chick+magnets